Stop ! Don't shoot !

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
First let me set straight a few things I know what once saved always saved means , I thought we all did in my church after all the pastor preached it enough . However as one of my many reasons for leaving is that that didn't walk the talk.

By your definition of it, or the word of Gods definition? You have said you dont agree with some of scripture, so whats your criteria that your pastor didnt do so?

For my church h and the majority of christians in it , it WAS about how I dressed on a Sunday morning

Weird church, if what you say is accurate.

it was making sure if the pastor popped round for a cup of tea making sure no secular books , music , alcohol etc were on display.

Why would alcohol be on display at a church? You say you were baptist but you are describing church of christ, with the how you dressed and now music stuff, they are who teach those things.


It was fine for them when I was there every single worship and bible study arriving first and leaving last but whenever real problems in my life happened they dumped me, brushed it under the carpet because of course I had to be in some kind of sin for things to be going wrong for me .

yes, its certainly Gods fault that you attended what sounds like a poor church, you do know there are others, no?


The first church home we had was for 25 years , I thought they were our family, saw us get married have our first 3 children . However when we left (to a sister church closer to home ) not one member kept in touch. The sister church we moved to happened to pastored by my father in law , but once our great differences in doctrine were discovered we decided it best not to members of that church , that was 3 years ago and my in laws haven't spoken to us since . Just for believing different . Now maybe my cases are the extreme , maybe you think I'm still hurt and bitter . I'm not , I know that no one is perfect and can't rely on man or church or arguing of which bit of the bible is going to "save me" .
My apologies for keep answering some comments with scripture and then denying it's the very word of God in others . I must sound very hypocritical and like I'm cherry picking but it's very hard to unlearn what you have been taught for 20odd years .
I feel free right now but that negative way of thinking just plagues me every now and then . I feel guilt sometimes that I'm still in bed on a SUNDAY morning or that song I just listened to had swear words in etc etc .
Regarding hell as mentioned I did my praying , studying and soul searching on that many years ago for me it is settled and I have peace about it and unless you really want to hear my thoughts on the issue I'm happy to leave your comment right there . But just to say your very comment about hell being mentioned more times than heaven was said more than once by my old pastor , so I decided to take him to task on that . He was wrong and without wanting to offend so are you . Now weather you have been taught it too and blindly follow or weather you are trying to deceive I do not know , but little tricks like that the church uses to keep us in line .

So you attended church, to judge others there who needed a savior as bad as you did, instead of for God? As far as "keep you in line" is that what you disagree with about the word of God too, that you have to admit you are a sinner in need of salvation that only comes through Christ?

Did you judge them all in your church like you have the word of God, and proclaim there, that God didnt mean what He said about salvation and hell?
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
deborah, actually read the bible regularly, then you'll know if a church is teaching whats in it.

Its why we were given the word of God, to test the spirits.

Acts 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him.
 

deborah

New member
By your definition of it, or the word of Gods definition? You have said you dont agree with some of scripture, so whats your criteria that your pastor didnt do so?

I know what I was taught about osas using scripture , which I what I quoted and as I mentioned its hard to unlearn something you have been taught is truth for many years years. However now no I am not sure we can rely on the bible for the whole truth.

Weird church, if what you say is accurate.

Don't know about weird but very legalistic. Most probably a cultural clash too as the pastor was American.
and when he got behind that pulpit you never really knew if he was speaking directly from scripture or his own interpretation of it . I felt it was all very superficial and yes I was a very judgmental person back then even though a good Christian never would admit to it I thought I knew something every one else did not , and that although perfectly nice and kind they did not go to church every week or read or even possess a bible , my opinion of them was that they were not Christian and they needed my help to "look good " in front of God.The general train of thought in the churches I have been in is that as long as you look the part , and are there for every event in church and can quote scripture , don't swear or listen or read secular stuff these were all things which got you more closer to God.
I'm hoping now I'm not that person , as I look back with embarrassment . I realised I had to flip it around , its whats on the inside that God looks at. Its how we interact with others even those whom we don't agree. The bible or church will not and cant not "save " me .

Why would alcohol be on display at a church? You say you were baptist but you are describing church of christ, with the how you dressed and now music stuff, they are who teach those things.

No not on display at church, I said "when the pastor popped around (to my house)for a cup of tea".It was all a list of unwritten rules and an invisible line you shouldn't cross if you were wanting the privaliges of a good Christian in church.i went out once to a club with my husband to a fancy dress party. The pictures of the event were posted on social media , my pastors wife came round and told me I had sinned against God for wearing inappropriate clothes, drinking alcohol and dancing to secular music. She then said I was no longer able to teach sunday school . Then the pastor delighted me with a visit where he said I was not welcome back into church until I acknowledged my sin and apologised to the church, my husband then threw him out of our home when he said I was acting like a whore.


yes, its certainly Gods fault that you attended what sounds like a poor church, you do know there are others, no?

Never said it was Gods fault , I already mentioned in an above post that no church is perfect , it is full of humans .yes I attended 4 other churches after that one but all seem to care only about outward appearance and as a result I never really had a relationship with God or understood His love , I was always living to please and in fear of God.


So you attended church, to judge others there who needed a savior as bad as you did, instead of for God? As far as "keep you in line" is that what you disagree with about the word of God too, that you have to admit you are a sinner in need of salvation that only comes through Christ?

Did you judge them all in your church like you have the word of God, and proclaim there, that God didnt mean what He said about salvation and hell?

Yes I'm ashamed to say I did judge them , maybe not out loud but in my heart .Of course now I know the church is meant for the broken ,lost and the suffering not a place for the perfect or those who think they are. A church quite near to me is an example of such a place, where it's members are mainly made up of single young men who are homeless and battling addiction, quite often you seem them either suffering withdrawals or even high , but they are still made welcome and because of that love they keep turning up , I think in most other churches I have been in they would have been escorted out of the building by the "elders" of the church.
And yes of course I questioned and studied many times about what I was told about heaven and especially hell,as mentioned above my pastor said the exact same thing as you about hell being mentioned more times than heaven , and it really doesn't take much reading or studying to see that that is simply not true . My pastor didn't like to hear it either .
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...

Sheol means: H7585 שְׁאֹל שְׁאוֹל she'ôl she'ôl sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Hades means: G86 ᾅδης hadēs hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

Gehenna means: G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Abraham's bosom is a metaphor for an intimate closeness such as "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

Paradise is a metaphor for the restitution of all things. (Acts 3:21)
 

deborah

New member
Sheol means: H7585 ×[emoji767]ְׁאֹל ×[emoji767]ְׁאוֹל she'oÌ‚l she'oÌ‚l sheh-ole', sheh-ole'
From H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranian retreat), including its accessories and inmates: - grave, hell, pit.
Total KJV occurrences: 65

Hades means: G86 ᾅδης hadēs hah'-dace
From G1 (as a negative particle) and G1492; properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

Gehenna means: G1067 γέεννα geenna gheh'-en-nah
Of Hebrew origin ([H1516] and [H2011]); valley of (the son of) Hinnom; gehenna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment: - hell.
Total KJV occurrences: 12

Abraham's bosom is a metaphor for an intimate closeness such as "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29)

Paradise is a metaphor for the restitution of all things. (Acts 3:21)

Yes I know what they meanings are , to which did Jesus go ?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Yes I know what they meanings are , to which did Jesus go ?

Jesus was buried in a tomb, a type of grave.

Jesus was a man and it has been appointed for all humans to die once. However, Jesus' death was for sin, which is spiritual and requires a second death. Jesus had not sinned so he was not worthy of the second death and was raised to life.

Gehenna is a trash fire to destroy the earth and the bodies of any who choose the second death. Unless a person rejects Jesus Christ the second death is not something to be concerned about.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Seems you know the bible, yet reject it. Or rather just the parts you do not like. Satan did that too " You shall not surely die" - "you can be as God"

Its all rebellion when you think you are more moral or right than He.
 

Angel4Truth

New member
Hall of Fame
Yes I'm ashamed to say I did judge them , maybe not out loud but in my heart .Of course now I know the church is meant for the broken ,lost and the suffering not a place for the perfect or those who think they are. A church quite near to me is an example of such a place, where it's members are mainly made up of single young men who are homeless and battling addiction, quite often you seem them either suffering withdrawals or even high , but they are still made welcome and because of that love they keep turning up , I think in most other churches I have been in they would have been escorted out of the building by the "elders" of the church.
And yes of course I questioned and studied many times about what I was told about heaven and especially hell,as mentioned above my pastor said the exact same thing as you about hell being mentioned more times than heaven , and it really doesn't take much reading or studying to see that that is simply not true . My pastor didn't like to hear it either .

Maybe he didnt because he knows more about it than you who doubt the validity of the word, you clearly dont know as well as you think, try this to learn something.


Does the Bible speak more about Hell than Heaven?

Jesus speaks about hell without saying hell also, which in this post:
Yes so many people believe . Was that Sheol , hades , fire such as that described at Gehenna , Abraham's bosom...


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

your own words.

I will leave you to your games now.
 

deborah

New member
Jesus was buried in a tomb, a type of grave.

Jesus was a man and it has been appointed for all humans to die once. However, Jesus' death was for sin, which is spiritual and requires a second death. Jesus had not sinned so he was not worthy of the second death and was raised to life.

Gehenna is a trash fire to destroy the earth and the bodies of any who choose the second death. Unless a person rejects Jesus Christ the second death is not something to be concerned about.

Hi ,
Yes I understand the story of his death and resurrection.
Gehenna however was a real place in Jerusalem where people used to burn their rubbish and sacrifice the odd child here and there , which by the way God said was an abomination to Him ?
Are you suggesting that a burning bonfire in Jerusalem a few thousand years ago is going to be the final resting place for those who don't believe ?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

deborah

New member
Seems you know the bible, yet reject it. Or rather just the parts you do not like. Satan did that too " You shall not surely die" - "you can be as God"

Its all rebellion when you think you are more moral or right than He.

Yes like I have said after nearly 30 you can't just forget what you have been taught. Talking about the bible and its contents comes easy to me but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as Gods literal word . I have come to think that it's bordering on dangerous to hold this book in such a high place of almost worship and severe condemnation for those who don't . The bible just like church and even us "christians" are merely pointers to God , whilst all useful tools when's used properly it is only God I hold in such high regard .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

deborah

New member
Maybe he didnt because he knows more about it than you who doubt the validity of the word, you clearly dont know as well as you think, try this to learn something.


Does the Bible speak more about Hell than Heaven?

Jesus speaks about hell without saying hell also, which in this post:


your own words.

I will leave you to your games now.

Again as I'm sure you have studied for yourself all the above words and phrases represent different places or "state" of the dead . They do not all mean fire and flames (which is what I have been taught about hell) . And if you don't think of hell that way that please accept my apologies .
When translating the bible they inserted the Anglo Saxon word of "hell" to describe all others words pertaining to the place/state of the dead.again very misleading unless your willing to dig deeper . I won't explain each one as Jamie already did it perfectly .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

deborah

New member
Again as I'm sure you have studied for yourself all the above words and phrases represent different places or "state" of the dead . They do not all mean fire and flames (which is what I have been taught about hell) . And if you don't think of hell that way that please accept my apologies .
When translating the bible they inserted the Anglo Saxon word of "hell" to describe all others words pertaining to the place/state of the dead.again very misleading unless your willing to dig deeper . I won't explain each one as Jamie already did it perfectly .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Oh sorry forgot to add , that even though you maybe correct about the use of all those different words by Jesus to describe "hell" that still doesnt equal more times than heaven .
Why is it you are very quick to respond to me when you disagree with me or think I'm wrong yet 3 or 4 times now I have said you are wrong about this particular subject , yet you are unwilling to prove your point ?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Yes like I have said after nearly 30 you can't just forget what you have been taught. Talking about the bible and its contents comes easy to me but that doesn't mean I have to accept it as Gods literal word . I have come to think that it's bordering on dangerous to hold this book in such a high place of almost worship and severe condemnation for those who don't . The bible just like church and even us "christians" are merely pointers to God , whilst all useful tools when's used properly it is only God I hold in such high regard .


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
2 Timothy 3:16 KJV -
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Are you suggesting that a burning bonfire in Jerusalem a few thousand years ago is going to be the final resting place for those who don't believe ?

Jesus used the trash fires of the Gehenna valley as a metaphor. Forget about Gehenna, it's not applicable to you.

Focus on the first resurrection just as Paul did.
 
Top