The Berean
Well-known member
I'm enjoying the Lakers collapse. It would be most humorous if the Lakers fail to reach the postseasons. Go Warriors!
Sports Talk 2018: Lebron to Brady and Everything in Between
- Thread starter Town Heretic
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Yep....I'd say it's safe to say Lebron's Final's streak comes to an end this year.
8 straight Final's is impressive.
Speaking of "8 straight", and since Brady is included in the topic of this thread, the Patriots & Brady will play in their 8th straight AFC Championship Game this weekend.
Both streaks are amazing, but I give the nod to Brady due to him doing it with one team.
Take Lebron off those teams and there's no streak. Brady had a back up win 11 games with one of Bill's teams. It took a mathematical miracle to keep them out of the playoffs. And they've had better backups during some of the streak.
Who is coming off the bench to stand in for Lebron that could manage it?
No, it's Lebron, who wins with different teams and systems. It's much harder to do that, which is why so few qbs have managed a similar feat.
I see your point, but keep in mind, Brady also went to 5 other AFC Championship Games, and won 3 Super Bowls, before the current streak of 8 straight AFC Championships began.
Same sort of answer. Brady is a system qb. Greatest system qb of all time, but the GOAT talk has been and remains a misdirected bit of invention. He's lost with the NFL's best offense twice in the SB to the lesser Manning.
Brady is a great qb. No question about it, but he's only arguably the best in his generation and he doesn't come close to matching Montana in the big game, unless we confuse appearances with the stronger metric. But if SB appearances are the thing, why isn't Kelly and his four straight in the conversation? Why isn't Bill Russell inarguably the greatest basketball player of all time instead of not being in the discussion?
I'd take Peyton and Bill over Brady and Bill. I'd take Rodgers and Bill over anyone on that list. Peyton is a smarter and more accurate qb. Rodgers can do more than anyone on that list, and is more accurate. Running that Patriot offense? I'd argue Manning couldn't have done worse and Rodgers would likely have done better. Brees? Maybe on both.
There's no one playing around Lebron that can do that to him. It's a huge and more objectively founded difference that makes the comparison a losing proposition for Tom.
I just don't get it.
Rodgers is 9-7 in the postseason all time.
If he's so great, why has he only won 9 postseason games? Why are his stats so low?
For example, Roethlisberger has played one more season than Rodgers. Ben has 2 more Super Bowl appearances, almost 15,000 more passing yards, 5 more postseason wins, and almost 30 more TD passes.
I just don't get the Rodgers hype.
The Berean
Well-known member
LeBron is one of the greatest NBA players ever. I was bummed when he signed with the Lakers. I despise the Lakers with the anger of a thousand suns. But Lebron is 34 years old now and clearly in decline. He's reached the age where pretty much all the NBA legends of the past are either in steep decline or retired. LeBron is starting to having those old man nagging injuries. If the Lakers don't reach the postseason this year that means that the LeBron will at least 35 years old when the Lakers can return to the playoffs. LeBron will never return to the Finals. The Western Conference is just way too stacked for years to come.
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I think that metric has merit, and might be part of the reason that so many ex-players now without hesitation refer to Brady as the greatest ever. This will be the 13th time his team has appeared in the AFC Championship game, in 17 seasons. That would be noteworthy if he had only led them to 13 playoff appearances in 17 seasons, but it's conference championships, which is amazing.
Perhaps the many ex-players bandying about the 'GOAT' label have got some myopia, since it's been so long since anybody's seen Montana in his hay day, but the fact remains that Brady's led his teams to the league championship game eight times and he's only now rounding out his 17th season. If the Pats triumph this Sunday, then he'll have quarterbacked his teams to SBs in more than 50% of his seasons, which is unmatched nor even approached, by anybody else.
Calling him the greatest of all time is not without merit, though that he's even broached the topic and forced the question, is a serious accomplishment in its own right.
The Steelers are 6-2 in Super Bowls.
The Cowboys are 5-3 in Super Bowls.
Tom Brady is 5-3 in Super Bowls.
When your personal record is right up there with 2 of the top franchises in the Super Bowl era, you’re probably the GOAT
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The Cowboys are 5-3 in Super Bowls.
Tom Brady is 5-3 in Super Bowls.
When your personal record is right up there with 2 of the top franchises in the Super Bowl era, you’re probably the GOAT
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What's not to get? The numbers are all there.
And Marino went to 1 SB. There's the team and the qb, only people who confuse the two think Brady is the GOAT.
What stats?
And we've already (a while back) noted that Ben was gifted his first ring and didn't do much in the game, a-la Bradshaw. So one more ring, largely gifted, than Rodgers.
And I already noted that seasons can be misleading. It's games that matter. Rodgers sat behind Favre and played 7 games his first three years against Ben's 41 in his first three. That's why the only way Ben is ahead of Rodgers in season play is in totals that don't take games into account. When you look at averages per game Ben is below Rodgers in every category. I set that out in my last.
So how well did the two play their positions in the postseason?
Ben: 62.4% completions, 30 tds, 24 ints, 86.5 qb rating
Aaron: 63.5% completions, 36 tds, 10 ints, 99.4 qb rating
Ben has played with a better team, on average.
Maybe you don't want to. Look at my last where I break it down and feel free to talk about any particular.
I think it's the end result of a steady diet of Brady as the GOAT by ESPN and the eastern sports media, who have a vested interest in that narrative. The NFL does too. And when Brady is done you'll see the next guy trotted out, probably Mahomes, who is already being groomed. Players are just people and unless they pay close attention they're just as susceptible, especially away from position. Now when the HOF qbs were asked, not that long ago, they differed.
It's an amazing run by a great qb, a great organization, and the greatest coach of his generation, all of whom benefitted by playing in a weak division (where you can't think of the last time a qb on the other teams was more than decent) and the home field advantage that followed. A remarkable confluence that produced one of the greatest NFL dynasties.
I think it's only arguable that he's the best of his generation, but then, that generation produced Rodgers, Manning, and Brees as well. Remarkable.
Put Marino under the rules these guys have played with and he's got a 6k season. Put Montana under center where defenses can't mug wrs or abuse qbs and he'd have played more years and had more rings.
The goat? Montana. Four SBs, four 100+ ratings, no ints, all wins. You wouldn't take him into a game with the best offense in league history and wind up with an L for the effort. :nono:
The Berean
Well-known member
Tonight it's payback time for the Warrior to destroy the Lakers!
How did it turn out? I'd imagine satisfactorily with Lebron riding the pine.
The Berean
Well-known member
Warriors led by as many as 30 points and won by 19 points. :banana: Though, it was't as satisfying with Lebron out. The Warriors have now won eight straight games and Boogie Cousins is playing now. The Warriors play your Celtics on Saturday! It could be an NBA Finals preview.
Reports are that Anthony Davis does not intend to return to New Orleans and is seeking a trade...but to what team? What's he looking for? A larger market? A shot at a ring?
Could LA come calling?
In an unrelated: Madden 19 predicts a 3 point victory by the Rams, 30-27.
We'll see. In their simulations, Aaron Donald is the difference maker, though the Pats rush for over 100 yds with Michel and hold Gurley under 100.
Madden has correctly called the winner 10 out of 14 times.
Could LA come calling?
In an unrelated: Madden 19 predicts a 3 point victory by the Rams, 30-27.
We'll see. In their simulations, Aaron Donald is the difference maker, though the Pats rush for over 100 yds with Michel and hold Gurley under 100.
Madden has correctly called the winner 10 out of 14 times.
The Berean
Well-known member
Why would Anthony Davis want to go to a mediocre team like the Lakers? The Lakers would have to gut their team to get Davis. He might rather play with Steph and Co. :banana:
Why be another piece of a team that's already loaded? Maybe he'd rather earn a championship.
And by next summer he can go where he wants. If you aren't going to be a piece in the machinery of GS you don't have many real options to win a ring. You can look to Houston, Boston, LA...you know I'd rather see him in Boston, but there's the representation connection to LA that can't be ignored.
The Berean
Well-known member
Why be another piece of a team that's already loaded? Maybe he'd rather earn a championship.
I guess it comes down to what Davis wants. Any team that wants to trade for Davis will have to trade quite a bit of talent to get him. Do the Lakers have enough pieces to entice the Pelicans?
I think they might, but then I look at my Celtics and think that if they can wait until Boston can enter into the contest, NO could do better. So the question is will they be patient until July, when we can get past the Rose Rule that kicked in with the Irving trade and make an offer. Outside of the the Sixers could be a dark horse, but the best bet is they take LA early or wait and get a little richer with my Celtics.
Unless Davis has a rooting interest. If LA is where his heart is then the Pelicans might oblige, given a stated or stubborn preference could make the sort of offer Boston would have to make unlikely.
Your Warriors would be much better off finding a way to keep Kevin Durant, then to go after Anthony Davis.