Spiritually Irma

T

Truster

New member
"US-bound Hurricane Irma has gotten so strong that it is showing up on equipment designed to measure earthquakes".

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Haggai 2:6 For thus saith Yah Veh Sabaoth of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;​
 
T

Truster

New member
Yah Veh is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: Yah Veh hath his way in the hurricane and in the whirling, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (Nahum 1:3)​
 
T

Truster

New member
"Florida is one of the world's premier destinations when it comes to LGBT festivities, from pulsing circuit parties to flag-waving Pride events to Gay Days at Walt Disney World Resort.

Among the state's leading gay vacation hubs, you're sure to find an event that fits your style".


Psalm 73: 18-19
Surely thou didst set them in smooth places: thou castest them down to ruins. How are they brought into desolation, as in a blink! In consuming, they are consumed with terrors.​
 
T

Truster

New member
Elohim displays his holiness by his opposition to the idolatry and immorality of his people.

Idolatry provokes the jealousy of the holy Elohim whose Name is Jealous and who stands vehemently opposed to all sin/immorality. His people cannot serve both Yah Veh Elohim and other elohim's/idols because Yah Veh is wholly dedicated to his own glory. When people profane his worship, in his jealousy he consumes them in their sin. This should elicit a sense of awe but people have hardened their hearts and so He hardens them further.

People are therefore called to repent, trust and worship in spirit and in truth, but people hate the truth...
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
It's not that I don't believe The Almighty judges today in the earth - I do. And it's not that I don't believe they can take the form of natural disasters - I do. But at times I struggle when I hear people label them as specific judgments for basically one reason.

Whenever I was punished for something when I was young, I knew why it was happening. And when the punishment was clear and directly linked to my behavior, it reinforced the fact that what I had done was wrong and I even was able to learn from it. I knew not to do (whatever) or there would be consequences. Isaiah says this :

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

As I read that verse, it seems to me that the punishment clearly underscores the crime. I don't even think it is necessary for a judgment to result in the repentance of the one being punished - but those that see it will (if they are to learn righteousness) recognize why the judgment has come. Will they not?

While Houston and Florida are certainly prominent in their promotion of iniquity, they are far from being alone. San Francisco, for example, is a hub of "pride" - one could ask why it has been spared thus far? If you search Google for Wales and pride, the first hit (or close to it) reveals that your own country has a certain tolerance of wickedness as well. Florida and Houston are no strangers to these storms given their locations - so what distinguishes one storm being a specific judgment from another being just the "natural" course of events?

I ask these questions only somewhat rhetorically. That is, I am not saying you are wrong. But the connection, it seems to me, needs to be clearly made between sin and judgment. It's a little like the past time that some have had in trying to figure out who the Antichrist is by adding up numbers associated with their name so that they add up to 666. Whether or not they happen upon the actual Antichrist that way (though I don't agree with the whole premise of the nature of the Antichrist being some single political individual), that will never tell them that they have it right. Kissinger, Reagan, Nero, VISA...all have been mathematically "proven" to be the Antichrist (or beast) by that method. Whether one of them were or not, the fact that others who aren't the Antichrist have the same mathematical sum associated with their name means it requires something different to determine who, exactly, is this single Antichrist. Likewise, the degree of devastation of a storm and the fact that the location getting hit has some significant sin doesn't necessarily mean the storm was a specific judgment from God on that whole city for that one sin.

My question, essentially, is how can a solid connection between disaster and judgment for a particular sin (or set of sins, even) be established such that it is clear what said judgment is for - and such that the inhabitants of the earth (who remain) actually learn righteousness?
 
T

Truster

New member
nikolai_42 said:
It's not that I don't believe The Almighty judges today in the earth - I do. And it's not that I don't believe they can take the form of natural disasters - I do. But at times I struggle when I hear people label them as specific judgments for basically one reason.

Whenever I was punished for something when I was young, I knew why it was happening. And when the punishment was clear and directly linked to my behavior, it reinforced the fact that what I had done was wrong and I even was able to learn from it. I knew not to do (whatever) or there would be consequences. Isaiah says this :

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Isaiah 26:9

As I read that verse, it seems to me that the punishment clearly underscores the crime. I don't even think it is necessary for a judgment to result in the repentance of the one being punished - but those that see it will (if they are to learn righteousness) recognize why the judgment has come. Will they not?

While Houston and Florida are certainly prominent in their promotion of iniquity, they are far from being alone. San Francisco, for example, is a hub of "pride" - one could ask why it has been spared thus far? If you search Google for Wales and pride, the first hit (or close to it) reveals that your own country has a certain tolerance of wickedness as well. Florida and Houston are no strangers to these storms given their locations - so what distinguishes one storm being a specific judgment from another being just the "natural" course of events?

I ask these questions only somewhat rhetorically. That is, I am not saying you are wrong. But the connection, it seems to me, needs to be clearly made between sin and judgment. It's a little like the past time that some have had in trying to figure out who the Antichrist is by adding up numbers associated with their name so that they add up to 666. Whether or not they happen upon the actual Antichrist that way (though I don't agree with the whole premise of the nature of the Antichrist being some single political individual), that will never tell them that they have it right. Kissinger, Reagan, Nero, VISA...all have been mathematically "proven" to be the Antichrist (or beast) by that method. Whether one of them were or not, the fact that others who aren't the Antichrist have the same mathematical sum associated with their name means it requires something different to determine who, exactly, is this single Antichrist. Likewise, the degree of devastation of a storm and the fact that the location getting hit has some significant sin doesn't necessarily mean the storm was a specific judgment from God on that whole city for that one sin.

My question, essentially, is how can a solid connection between disaster and judgment for a particular sin (or set of sins, even) be established such that it is clear what said judgment is for - and such that the inhabitants of the earth (who remain) actually learn righteousness?
Click to expand...

There is one reason for judgement, Elohim is Holy and He hates sin and sinners. He is glorified in both the destruction as well as the salvation of sinners. If you wish to take away His right to justice and judgement then that's up to you. Teaching others to do so would be unwise to say the least.

Homosexuality is itself a judgement for sin. Romans 1.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Truster said:
There is one reason for judgement, Elohim is Holy and He hates sin and sinners. He is glorified in both the destruction as well as the salvation of sinners. If you wish to take away His right to justice and judgement then that's up to you. Teaching others to do so would be unwise to say the least.

Homosexuality is itself a judgement for sin. Romans 1.
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I have absolutely no issue with your statements. And I have no desire to obscure justice or judgment in any way. But at what point does declaring something a judgment from God have meaning? In other words, should we say that since the East Coast of the US is battered with storms every year that it is continually wicked? Is every disaster a judgment? If so, then calling these hurricanes judgments is no different from calling a car wreck a judgment. Or even someone losing their car keys. If everything that happens is a judgment of God, then for what purpose? Is it merely so He can glorify Himself? He does do that, yes. But the usefulness of calling anything a judgment if virtually everything is a judgment is to give the term little weight. Those that hear "judgment" with every small and large thing simply become either inured to the term or become afraid of almost literally everything. Those that accept it as so don't need the judgments to "learn righteousness". Which I guess answers my question - you aren't concerned with whether judgments are received as such (and the people learn righteousness) as you are with upholding the holiness and glorification of Elohim. That is certainly a noble thing. But when is it to be tempered with mercy and compassion? There was a man with an unclean spirit (many, actually) whom the Savior delivered and who returned to Him as He was leaving :

And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.
Mark 5:18-19

The man's possession was surely a judgment but Jesus had compassion on the man who He could legitimately have bypassed. And in John 4 when He meets the Samaritan woman at the well, He declares openly to her what sin she is living in - and her response is to hear Him because of His prophetic utterance. It indicated to her He knew her inside and out. She would have known that judgment would be hers if she continued in sin.

In other words, what I am asking is that even if there is a judgment upon a people, does that necessitate aloofness from the judged and focusing simply on the glory and holiness of The Almighty? Jude even says that compassion can be an alternative to pulling people from the fire.

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And of some have compassion, making a difference:
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jude 21-23

If I read the scriptures correctly, there is not a uniform approach (as individuals) to the wicked. And I will repeat that I am not saying these storms aren't judgment or that it is even heartless to say so. But is that always the case? Is open delight in disaster always the appropriate response?
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
As a creature (and not the Creator) that concept of justice is terrifying in itself. If I got justice, I would have no hope. And in reading the parable of the wicked servant that didn't forgive a small debt when he owed much, I am in no position to think it only right that the wicked get their just desserts (even though it is right). The debt that WAS forgiven the wicked servant was reinstated when he became unwilling to forgive another (much smaller) debt.
 
T

Truster

New member
"Elohim judgeth the just, and Elohim is angry with the wicked every day."​


Every second of every minute in every day 1.8 people leave time and enter eternity. The wages of sin is death and there are many forms of death. Revelation gives us access to what has happened historically as well as what is happening throughout the world on a daily basis. The problem is most people do not have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

The unholy oppose the Eternal every moment of each and every day. His holiness demands He avenges His enemies. Worshipping in spirit and in truth means recognising His ways and His works and giving Him the honour, power and the glory.

That is what I do.
 
nikolai_42

nikolai_42

Well-known member
Truster said:
"Elohim judgeth the just, and Elohim is angry with the wicked every day."​


Every second of every minute in every day 1.8 people leave time and enter eternity. The wages of sin is death and there are many forms of death. Revelation gives us access to what has happened historically as well as what is happening throughout the world on a daily basis. The problem is most people do not have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying.

The unholy oppose the Eternal every moment of each and every day. His holiness demands He avenges His enemies. Worshipping in spirit and in truth means recognising His ways and His works and giving Him the honour, power and the glory.

That is what I do.
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And that is good.

What about loving your enemies, though? What you have said is not mutually exclusive with doing loving your enemies, is it? If you were unilaterally apprehended and give life - which you did not look for and even did not want - were you not an enemy of the Eternal? And He made you a friend instead of giving you justice, correct? In the light of that, how do you see these scriptures :

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:35-38

{Let me be clear - if overly repetitive - I am not saying this with reference to your calling the storm a judgment. Rather, in the sense of God delighting not in the death of the wicked and in the righteous sighing and crying for the abominations done in Ezekiel's day. The cry "Why will you die?" implies a reaching out to those that are perishing, doesn't it? Or do you not believe that to be the case?}

And for what is He commending the righteous here :

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:34-40
 
T

Truster

New member
nikolai_42 said:
And that is good.

What about loving your enemies, though? What you have said is not mutually exclusive with doing loving your enemies, is it? If you were unilaterally apprehended and give life - which you did not look for and even did not want - were you not an enemy of the Eternal? And He made you a friend instead of giving you justice, correct? In the light of that, how do you see these scriptures :

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
Luke 6:35-38

{Let me be clear - if overly repetitive - I am not saying this with reference to your calling the storm a judgment. Rather, in the sense of God delighting not in the death of the wicked and in the righteous sighing and crying for the abominations done in Ezekiel's day. The cry "Why will you die?" implies a reaching out to those that are perishing, doesn't it? Or do you not believe that to be the case?}

And for what is He commending the righteous here :

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25:34-40
Click to expand...

I make a point of never discussing the truth. Truth is to be either accepted or rejected depending on what spirit is at work in the hearer. Truth is the Messiah who is also the Way and the Life. Those that are in the Way have Life and accept the Truth. Only these recipients of grace embrace the absolute truth. Others try and make way for their lusts and prefer not to allow the truth to spoil their day.
 
T

Truster

New member
Truster said:
"US-bound Hurricane Irma has gotten so strong that it is showing up on equipment designed to measure earthquakes".

Hebrews 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

Haggai 2:6 For thus saith Yah Veh Sabaoth of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land;​
Click to expand...


8.1 Earthquake Strikes Mexico's West Coast During Severe Solar Storm. Tsunami warning posted.
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Proverbs 17:5

Whoso mocketh the poor reproacheth his Maker: and he that is glad at calamities shall not be unpunished.
 
T

Truster

New member
The Eternal Almighty in His mercy sends judgements to allow people time to reflect and repent. Everyone categorically states that they have free-will and so they must trust and repent as did Niniva.
 
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