ECT Social Justice and the Gospel Statement Released

MennoSota

New member
A controversial statement signed by more than 9,000 evangelicals and Christian organizations deploring social justice as a dangerous concept to the Gospel, belittles Christians who talk about race and justice, says Tim Keller, founding pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian Church in New York City.

"It's not so much what [the statement] says, but what it does. It's trying to marginalize people talking about race and justice, it's trying to say, 'You're really not biblical' and it's not fair in that sense," Keller said in a 3-minute clip from a recent session in the 2018-19 City Lab Series billed "Compassion and Justice: The Kingdom at the Margins."

"If somebody tried to go down [the statement] with me, 'Will you agree with this, will you agree with this,' I would say, 'You're looking at the level of what it says and not the level of what it's doing. I do think what it's trying to do is it's trying to say, 'Don't make this emphasis, don't worry about the poor, don't worry about the injustice, that's really what it's saying.' Even if I could agree with most of it ... it's what it's doing that I don't like," he added.

Keller evaluated the statement using a philosophical argument called the Speech Act Theory which, he explained, doesn't just analyze words by what they say but also by what they do.

The Statement on Social Justice & the Gospel was released early this month with initial signers including John MacArthur of Grace Community Church, who recently denounced evangelicalism's "newfound obsession" with social justice.

Among other things, the statement notes that: "Specifically, we are deeply concerned that values borrowed from secular culture are currently undermining Scripture in the areas of race and ethnicity, manhood and womanhood, and human sexuality. The Bible's teaching on each of these subjects is being challenged under the broad and somewhat nebulous rubric of concern for 'social justice.'

"If the doctrines of God's Word are not uncompromisingly reasserted and defended at these points, there is every reason to anticipate that these dangerous ideas and corrupted moral values will spread their influence into other realms of biblical doctrines and principles.

"The rapidity with which these deadly ideas have spread from the culture at large into churches and Christian organizations—including some that are evangelical and Reformed—necessitates the issuing of this statement now."

Keller said he is concerned that the statement is a reactionary response instead of a biblically sound one.

"What I fear is it may be responding to some sins on the other side ... At this point I feel that the Christian Church is being, because our country is so polarized politically, that increasingly the Church is becoming an extension of the various political parties. I've said this before, I'm going to say it again, if you talk about the evangelical Church, for example, there has now become a red evangelicals and blue evangelicals. It's almost like our churches are sort of lining up to become more extensions of the political parties than they are really, bucking what the Word of God says," Keller noted.

"If you really take a look at a lot of things that the Bible says about sex and gender that really come out sounding politically today conservative and a lot of things the Bible says about race and injustice and the poor today come out sounding extremely liberal."

He said the Church cannot allow itself to align with one party because of this divide.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ch...bout-race-and-justice-tim-keller-says-227607/
 

Shubee

New member
John MacArthur of Grace Community Church ... recently denounced evangelicalism's "newfound obsession" with social justice.
Perhaps that's just his guilty conscience talking. MacArthur knows that the Christian church is divided and that he rather stand with the powerful and privileged and ignore the oppressed and disenfranchised.
 

MennoSota

New member
Perhaps that's just his guilty conscience talking. MacArthur knows that the Christian church is divided and that he rather stand with the powerful and privileged and ignore the oppressed and disenfranchised.
I cannot speak for John MacArthur and what he would rather do.
I am not opposed to defining the term social justice as a Christian.
Unfortunately the phrase has been politicized and others get shamed if they don't agree with whatever definition the other person has for social justice. In fact, I just heard the term "environmental justice" the other day. It was being used to shame anyone who doesn't fully agree with the latest politic around climate change/global warming.
My general take is: Social justice is the action made to ensure that all humans are treated equally and fairly under the rule of law. No special privilege should be given to one that is not given to all.
I view it as a similar call to when the Britons wrote the Magna Carta and demanded that the King be subject to the law.
I do not view social justice as a veiled term for Marxist Socialism, though I believe some define it that way.
 

Shubee

New member
I am not opposed to defining the term social justice as a Christian.
Unfortunately the phrase has been politicized and others get shamed if they don't agree with whatever definition the other person has for social justice.
Wrongdoing should be reproved. If a wrongdoer feels shamed for being exposed, then I thank God that truth is being exalted. However, if a Christian crumbles under irrational arguments, then let's pray that that brother or sister will get out of the ring and ask competent defenders of true social justice to answer the confused critics and detractors.
 

MennoSota

New member
Wrongdoing should be reproved. If a wrongdoer feels shamed for being exposed, then I thank God that truth is being exalted. However, if a Christian crumbles under irrational arguments, then let's pray that that brother or sister will get out of the ring and ask competent defenders of true social justice to answer the confused critics and detractors.

I agree, wrong doing should be reproved. Wrong doing is defined by God's word, not by human opinion. Post-modern thinking should not prevail so that wrong doing becomes whatever the majority thinks. When it becomes that method, we have vigilante behavior, not justice.
Being shamed by a post-modern thinker, with no biblical support, is vigilante, mob shaming, not God bringing conviction.
Finally, we need to educate both Christians and secular society regarding Godly social justice.
 

Shubee

New member
I just heard the term "environmental justice" the other day. It was being used to shame anyone who doesn't fully agree with the latest politic around climate change/global warming.
I'm a strong believer for the advocacy of true "environmental justice" and it's undeniably clear that unavoidable facts do shame polluters and their supporters. Is that a reason to be silent? While I don't believe that CO2 is a pollutant, I do see that Christians have an obligation to exalt a sustainable and respectable management of planet earth. http://everythingimportant.org/climatechange/
 

MennoSota

New member
I'm a strong believer for the advocacy of true "environmental justice" and it's undeniably clear that unavoidable facts do shame polluters and their supporters. Is that a reason to be silent? while I don't believe that CO2 is a pollutant, I do see that Christians have an obligation to exalt a sustainable and respectable management of planet earth. http://everythingimportant.org/climatechange/
We are stewards of God's creation. We must work to conserve what God has provided.
Most of what I observe is not people working for conservation. Most is people jockeying for money as they create a market to sell their products. It looks like most are marketing themselves as environmentally friendly when in reality it's not. It's just a scheme to make money off from people who feel shamed.
 

MennoSota

New member
Here's one approach that I strongly endorse: http://truthinverity.org/three-angels-messages/
I went through and looked at your link. I'm not seeing the connection to social justice in that website.
I see 7th day Adventist teaching regarding what they believe Revelation is teaching, but I don't see anything about social justice.
So... I don't see what the approach to social justice would be from that link. You'll have to make the connection for me.
 

Shubee

New member
The first three videos present the core message of Ayn Rand's widely accepted philosophy: “Altruism is evil.”

Here is a brief 3 and a half minute summary with accolades from leading professedly Christian Republicans:


Are you sure that you don't see a connection to the popular Republican hatred of social justice?
 

MennoSota

New member
Ann Rand was a libertarian. Are you saying the writers if the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" are libertarians, not Republicans?
I'm not making the connection that you seem to be making. Lay out your position because your link is just confusing.
 

Shubee

New member
Are you saying the writers if the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" are libertarians, not Republicans?
I'm saying that Ayn Randism is a demonic doctrine not recognized as such and not opposed by the writers of the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" and that Ayn Randism (the first demon's message) is greatly loved in the Republican Party. Note, for example, the roaring applause that Ron Paul received during the 2011 Republican Debate when he declared his preference for people to have the freedom to risk their lives by not buying health insurance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7a8O9XaSRw

So I plea, please name the writers of the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" that have a history of opposing these Republican ideals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxIw7Dbamo
 

MennoSota

New member
I'm saying that Ayn Randism is a demonic doctrine not recognized as such and not opposed by the writers of the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" and that Ayn Randism (the first demon's message) is greatly loved in the Republican Party. Note, for example, the roaring applause that Ron Paul received during the 2011 Republican Debate when he declared his preference for people to have the freedom to risk their lives by not buying health insurance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7a8O9XaSRw

So I plea, please name the writers of the "Social Gospel & the Gospel" that have a history of opposing these Republican ideals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxIw7Dbamo
Shubee, I haven't read anything from Ayn Rand. I cannot speak to her influence in the Republican Party. I also will not defend either godless party (Democrats and Republicans). If you want to bash Ayn Rand, start a new thread and see who bites.
 
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