ECT Sell all you have

[God's Truth]

Yes

The works of the law never saved anyone, but the believers were required to keep the law under the old covenant.

Faith was necessary under the OC as it is under the NC.

Believers could do the works of the law, yet because of their lack of faith they were not saved.

The lack of faith in the people resulted in their being blind to their evil hearts and everyday evil works which condemned them, even though they were most particular that they kept the law to the very letter.

Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Rom 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

You are wrong.

The law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

All someone had to do was live by doing obeying the law.

 

[Bright Raven]

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[Cons&Spires]

No.
Being under the law is not the same as having eternal life.

Were they under the law?

The Law was a 'law of sin'. It was an agreement that men could do as they willed so long as it fit certain ordinances of God.

It is about as salvific as food is to a thirsty man, it has nothing to do pertaining to salvation.
What it did was keep God from destroying you, being a moderate appeasement so to speak.

 

[Danoh]

2Chr 20:20 And they rose early in the morning, and went forth into the wilderness of Tekoa: and as they went forth, Jehoshaphat stood and said, Hear me, O Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem; Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.

Psa 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Not in the letter = keeping the law before men.

But of the heart = from the heart, because under the Law the heart was also the issue with God.

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Outward obedience of the Law had to be in faith; from the heart, not mere outward performance, as pleasing men, rather; from the heart; as pleasing men.

Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

They walked the walk, talked the talk, but, as pleasing men - their heart far from God.

9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

As a result, when "him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph" John 1:45, did come, they were so used to never really having walked under the Law by faith; because they had not really believed Moses, they had no faith to excercise toward Him.

Anyway "the Law was not of faith" alone.

For, be it under the Law they were kept under until faith should come, or now, under Grace thru faith - faith was the issue under both systems.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are wrong.

The law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

All someone had to do was live by doing obeying the law.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

LA

 

[God's Truth]

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

LA

That is about the Jews not wanting to stop making THEMSELVES clean...so they did NOT accept it that Jesus' blood made them clean. The Jews wanted to keep doing the ceremonial works to clean themselves.

Do you know how the Jews used to have to make themselves clean?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You are wrong.

The law was NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

All someone had to do was live by doing obeying the law.

That is about the Jews not wanting to stop making THEMSELVES clean...so they did NOT accept it that Jesus' blood made them clean. The Jews wanted to keep doing the ceremonial works to clean themselves.

Do you know how the Jews used to have to make themselves clean?

You said the law was not based on faith.

The Bible corrects you.

People did not live by obeying the law without faith.

The Bible says they ought to have had faith in the keeping of the law.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

You said the law was not based on faith.

The Bible corrects you.

The Bible did no such thing. The BIBLE says the law was not based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

People did not live by obeying the law without faith.

Many people lived that way. Those are the people God cut off when Jesus started his earthly ministry.

Romans 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble.

The Bible says they ought to have had faith in the keeping of the law.

Of course, people SHOULD have faith, but many did not.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Those scriptures are about the Jews not wanting to have faith that Jesus' blood cleaned them, they wanted to keep cleaning themselves as commanded in the old law. The ceremonial works are how the people cleaned themselves.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The Bible did no such thing. The BIBLE says the law was not based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

You changed the verse.

God never accepted the works of the law without faith.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;



.LA

 

[God's Truth]

You changed the verse.

God never accepted the works of the law without faith.

I did no such thing.

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;



.LA

How many times do I have to explain those scriptures to you?

The Jews did not have faith that Jesus' blood cleans them and washes their sins away...they wanted to keep relying on their own works to clean themselves, such as circumcision, the dietary law, the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals.

 

[Tambora]

For, be it under the Law they were kept under until faith should come, or now, under Grace thru faith - faith was the issue under both systems.

Yep.
The just shall live by faith.

 

[oatmeal]

I find it useful to read the passage that a contains the verses in question.

Luke 18:18-30

18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?

27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.

29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,

30 Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

Until a man is ready to leave his past, he will continue to live in his past.

If you want to follow the leadership of the lord Jesus Christ, you have to learn to travel light.

No one can be on the move like Jesus Christ was while being burdened by the cares of this world, by the riches of this world.

Matthew 13:

And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

You cannot serve God and mammon.

The young ruler needed to unload all those things that would choke the word out of his life.

Yet we read of Joseph of Arimathea who was a wealthy man and a disciple of Jesus Christ.

Joseph could handle his wealth and be a disciple at the same time. He had learned to put God first in his life and was blessed for it.

The young ruler kept the ten commandments, but the law contains hundreds of other laws that needed keeping as well.

The young ruler needed to learn to focus on the things of God without distraction.

People who climb mountains do not take anything more than what is necessary, they do not take laptops, TV's , microwave ovens with them.

If you want to reach reach you high places, you must learn to leave behind those things that impede and distract you from your goal.

2 Samuel 22:34 He maketh my feet like hinds' feet: and setteth me upon my high places.

A hind, a deer, does not carry a suit case or a tv or a laptop with it.

It has nothing but itself and a goal

Case closed.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I did no such thing.



How many times do I have to explain those scriptures to you?

The Jews did not have faith that Jesus' blood cleans them and washes their sins away...they wanted to keep relying on their own works to clean themselves, such as circumcision, the dietary law, the various external washings, and the sacrifice of animals.

Only the unbelievers relied on the works of the law without faith,

the believers knew the works of the law pointed to Christ and had faith that what God promised to do He would do for them.

Read all the chapter.

Faith was central in all the works of the righteous--

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

 

[Danoh]

...How many times do I have to explain those scriptures to you?

As many times as you are wrong, wrong, wrong...

 

[God's Truth]

As many times as you are wrong, wrong, wrong...

All you can do is deny the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Only the unbelievers relied on the works of the law without faith,

the believers knew the works of the law pointed to Christ and had faith that what God promised to do He would do for them.

Read all the chapter.

Faith was central in all the works of the righteous--

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

I am glad that you have come to agree with me, but you need to humble yourself and admit you learned something, instead of acting as if you had not.

 

[aikido7]

Jews knew full well what their conquering and domination by other nations meant to them throughout their history.

That's why the forgiveness of debt, the return of the land to the original owners, the care for the widow and the orphan and the Jubilee celebrations were developed in the first place.

The Jewish God of Justice (and Jesus' God as well) was primary to Israel.

These fundamental concepts were renewed by Jesus' preaching and stated mission. He pushed the envelope of normative Judaism and carried on the responsibility and social activism that made up a Kingdom of God built on systemic justice, mercy and nonviolence.

Most Christians today have understandably turned away from Jesus' core teachings of "liberty and justice" and dignity for all. Instead, they have chosen to focus instead on Jesus AS.

Jesus as born of a virgin.
Jesus as the Son of God.
Jesus as Lord.
Jesus as a sacrifice for sin.

By adhering to a "belief-based" Christianity, believers can comfortably ignore the key ethical teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.