Scripture. What is considered Scripture?

[glorydaz]

You are now just repeating your own errors after they have been proven to be false and which makes you a lair and false accuser:





And again, as stated many times, it is nothing more than a translational issue but you purposely choose a translation which creates the surface illusion of an error which is only in the machinations of your own vain imagination:

Spoiler

Hebrews 9:3-4 KJV
3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;

Hebrews 9:3-4 YLT
3 and after the second vail a tabernacle that is called 'Holy of holies,'
4 having a golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid all round about with gold, in which is the golden pot having the manna, and the rod of Aaron that budded, and the tables of the covenant,

You prove nothing but your own malicious intentions against the written Word.

Yep, which is exactly how he started this ridiculous thread.

 

[glorydaz]

Oopsy daisy, you said that you raised someone from the dead and did not even think to mention God or give Him the credit. :shut: :chuckle:

Please tell me Zenn didn't say he raised someone from the dead. :shocked:

 

[2003cobra]

No, you need to show us all where it is written otherwise or where the scripture proves that it was not. You are the accuser: again, make your case, for otherwise you lose, case dismissed.

You need proof that the golden altar of incense was used daily and the Holy Of Holies was only entered once a year?

This is new information for you?

 

[2003cobra]

Please tell me Zenn didn't say he raised someone from the dead. :shocked:

Do you doubt that God can use someone to do that?

 

[2003cobra]

Leviticus 16:12-13 KJV
12 And he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from off the altar before the LORD, and his hands full of sweet incense beaten small, and bring it within the vail:
13 And he shall put the incense upon the fire before the LORD, that the cloud of the incense may cover the mercy seat that is upon the testimony, that he die not:

There is Ahron, commanded to take the censer full of burning coals into the Holy Holies, and (two)hands full of incense to put upon the burning coals inside the Holy Holies and produce the cloud so that he does not die. Thus we know that the censer was inside the Holy Holies at the very least once per year, in the day of Atonements.

Yes, once a year the priest took the censer into the Holy Of Holies.

The Holy Of Holies did not hold the altar of incense. It was outside the curtain, and only taken in once a year.

I am surprised this is news to you.

Exodus 30 “Make an altar of acacia wood for burning incense. 2 It is to be square, a cubit long and a cubit wide, and two cubits high —its horns of one piece with it. 3 Overlay the top and all the sides and the horns with pure gold, and make a gold molding around it. 4 Make two gold rings for the altar below the molding—two on each of the opposite sides—to hold the poles used to carry it. 5 Make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 6 Put the altar in front of the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law—before the atonement cover that is over the tablets of the covenant law—where I will meet with you. 7 “Aaron must burn fragrant incense on the altar every morning when he tends the lamps. 8 He must burn incense again when he lights the lamps at twilight so incense will burn regularly before the LORD for the generations to come

Twice a day, every day, the golden altar of incense was used. It was not held in the Holy Of Holies. The error in the text is clear.

 

[Lon]

This is a hard thing to do, and when I raised Walter from the dead, I was flat out exhausted in bed for two days.

And yet, you being so quick to believe of yourself that you would (mention or give credit to God), haven't raised anyone from the dead.

That should give You pause for reflection.


Zenn

Thanks for sharing.

One of the side-effects of taking a full dose of the doctrine of inerrancy seems to be the mistaken belief that God doesn’t communicate with people anymore. There are no more tongues and interpretation or prophecy. Sometimes they add that miracles no longer occur [even disbelieving people can rise from the dead] They seem to think God put a perfect book on the podium and left the building.

Praise God that it is not so! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever and has not abandoned His people.

You guys are that intimidated people who believe God hasn’t changed, that His Spirit still is active with His people?

Raising Walter from the dead? I should say so. How in the wide world could I say a THING after that? Game over, no?

I 'might' say something for posterity of the thread, but yeah, I'm done. :wave2: -Lon

You make up your reality as you go along rather than finding out the truth.

Watchman, is this where you stand too?

 

[glorydaz]

Do you doubt that God can use someone to do that?

The miracles God performs today are not done by the hands of man. Power is not invested in "healers" or any such thing that will INEVITABLY cause men to boast. Just as Zenn just did...proving him A FALSE PROPHET.


God uses members of His body to preach the Gospel. That is how dead men are raised in this age of Grace.

 

[2003cobra]

Raising Walter from the dead? I should say so. How in the wide world could I say a THING after that? Game over, no?

I 'might' say something for posterity of the thread, but yeah, I'm done. :wave2: -Lon

I am reminded of 2 Timothy 3, in which we are warned against people who have a form of godliness but deny its power.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


You don’t know that God can raise people from the dead and speak through those willing to be used? You really do think He left a Bible and abandoned us?

 

[2003cobra]

The miracles God performs today are not done by the hands of man. Power is not invested in "healers" or any such thing that will INEVITABLY cause men to boast. Just as Zenn just did...proving him A FALSE PROPHET.


God uses members of His body to preach the Gospel. That is how dead men are raised in this age of Grace.

So you do deny the power of God!

 

[Lon]

Do you doubt that God can use someone to do that?

Do you doubt that God can use someone to do that?

I am reminded of 2 Timothy 3, in which we are warned against people who have a form of godliness but deny its power.

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.


You don’t know that God can raise people from the dead and speak through those willing to be used? You really do think He left a Bible and abandoned us?

Raising Walter from the dead? I should say so. How in the wide world could I say a THING after that? Game over, no?
yeah, I'm done. :wave2: -Lon

Good passage though... It is the most meaningful thing you've said or posted, always is Isaiah 55:11 Matthew 4:4 ... Oh yeah, forgot, we don't see it the same way, Isaiah 55:11 regardless.

 

[2003cobra]

The miracles God performs today are not done by the hands of man. Power is not invested in "healers" or any such thing that will INEVITABLY cause men to boast. Just as Zenn just did...proving him A FALSE PROPHET.


God uses members of His body to preach the Gospel. That is how dead men are raised in this age of Grace.

I can give you an example of boasting from this thread:
You can't think out of a paper bag and assume everybody else is just as bad. Be truthful, C's and C- in school, right? It shows...You can go sit in the back of the class now and put your head down in shame for your disobedience...You are too thick to be taught...Were you raised in a one room school house where they had to pass you because you were all below par?...I'm smarter than you...you are not intelligent enough to talk to me

These are not my words directed at you. They are the words of another directed at me.

The passage in 2 Timothy 3 described those who deny the power of God as also being boastful and abusive:
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

 

[Lon]

God uses members of His body to preach the Gospel. That is how dead men are raised in this age of Grace.

:up: Romans 1:16

So you do deny the power of God!

:doh:

Yeah, I've got nothin' to add to thread. Just listening to a few friends at this point.

 

[daqq]

Please tell me Zenn didn't say he raised someone from the dead. :shocked:

:shut: :chuckle:

 

[Lon]

I can give you an example of boasting from this thread:
You can't think out of a paper bag and assume everybody else is just as bad. Be truthful, C's and C- in school, right? It shows...You can go sit in the back of the class now and put your head down in shame for your disobedience...You are too thick to be taught...Were you raised in a one room school house where they had to pass you because you were all below par?...I'm smarter than you...you are not intelligent enough to talk to me

These are not my words directed at you. They are the words of another directed at me.

The passage in 2 Timothy 3 described those who deny the power of God as also being boastful and abusive:
There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

:think: You saw 'lover of myself in that? Boastful? (perhaps I could give you that one, if I was wrong in my academic ability). Disobedient to my parents? Abusive? You think C's and C-'s is abusive? It is simply 'ordinary.' Ungrateful? :think: Not to God. To you? Probably. Unholy? I didn't use profanity in thread. Without love? Hard to see on forums imho. Self control? I believe I've practiced that well in thread. You may not agree, but God isn't finished with me yet. I'm a work in progress. That said, ALL of us fall short, no? Do we totally disfellowship with everyone? Brutal? Have I been brutal? Not lovers of good? Didn't I say that we as believers 'should' hope all things and believe all things, not entertain just any accusation etc.? Treacherous, rash? Do you know I said you jumped the gun a few times to accuse? Wouldn't that be treacherous? Rash even? Conceited? I do wrestle with this (as do you). The question is how hard we actually wrestle with it no? Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.... I think we all can work on that. I often eat too much (not fat but no excuse). Some smoke, others drink, others have a hard time with other vices. Doing excellent in all of these etc.?

Maybe you should have nothing to do with me? Are you being disobedient?

Raising Walter from the dead? I should say so. How in the wide world could I say a THING after that? Game over, no?
yeah, I'm done. :wave2: -Lon

 

[2003cobra]

:up: Romans 1:16


:doh:

Yeah, I've got nothin' to add to thread. Just listening to a few friends at this point.

And you did not even try to address the three errors in Matthew about Jairus.

You deny God’s power and worship a book instead. That is a bad combination for someone who claims to be a Christian. May you be released from these serious problem.

 

[Lon]

And you did not even try to address the three errors in Matthew about Jairus.

You deny God’s power and worship a book instead. That is a bad combination for someone who claims to be a Christian. May you be released from these serious problem.

Raising Walter from the dead? I should say so. How in the wide world could I say a THING after that? Game over, no?
yeah, I'm done. :wave2: -Lon

 

[2003cobra]

:think: You saw 'lover of myself in that? Boastful? (perhaps I could give you that one, if I was wrong in my academic ability). Disobedient to my parents? Abusive? You think C's and C-'s is abusive? It is simply 'ordinary.' Ungrateful? :think: Not to God. To you? Probably. Unholy? I didn't use profanity in thread. Without love? Hard to see on forums imho. Self control? I believe I've practiced that well in thread. You may not agree, but God isn't finished with me yet. I'm a work in progress. That said, ALL of us fall short, no? Do we totally disfellowship with everyone? Brutal? Have I been brutal? Not lovers of good? Didn't I say that we as believers 'should' hope all things and believe all things, not entertain just any accusation etc.? Treacherous, rash? Do you know I said you jumped the gun a few times to accuse? Wouldn't that be treacherous? Rash even? Conceited? I do wrestle with this (as do you). The question is how hard we actually wrestle with it no? Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.... I think we all can work on that. I often eat too much (not fat but no excuse). Some smoke, others drink, others have a hard time with other vices. If not? Maybe you should have nothing to do with me? Are you being disobedient? Doing excellent in all of these etc.?

I am sure that you are not confessing to many things in that list that you have amply demonstrated in this thread.

And you do clearly seem to be denying the power of God to raise people from the dead today. Do you deny that He heals people too?

We do all fall short.

 

[George Affleck]

Also, we have already been over this for many pages now, and your theory is straight up hogwash: you cannot spiritualize the Prophet and hang Matthew out to dry by interpreting that passage as strictly literal and physical. It does not matter that you choose to call Zechariah "poetry", (he is a PROPHET for goodness sakes), it is still the same thing: spiritualizing the words of the Prophet under the more palatable label of "Hebrew poetry". It is tantamount to using unfair, (wicked), scales or balances. The Prophet clearly intends both just as Matthew does; and we have not one witness, (Hebrew), but two witnesses including the Septuagint which also clearly intends both. In the Hebrew text it is not just the waw, (and), but also the word for upon is used two times:

Zechariah 9:9 WLC (Consonants Only)
גילי מאד בת־ציון הריעי בת ירושלם הנה מלכך יבוא לך צדיק ונושע הוא עני ורכב על־חמור ועל־עיר בן־אתנות׃
http://biblehub.com/text/zechariah/9-9.htm

Zechariah 9:9 KJV (Hebrew Text)
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.

Zechariah 8:9 LXX
9 χαιρε σφοδρα θυγατερ σιων κηρυσσε θυγατερ ιερουσαλημ ιδου ο βασιλευς σου ερχεται σοι δικαιος και σωζων αυτος πραυς και επιβεβηκως επι υποζυγιον και πωλον νεον
http://bibledatabase.net/html/septuagint/38_009.htm

Zechariah 8:9 LXX Brenton Septuagint
9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Sion; proclaim it aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, the King is coming to thee, just, and a Saviour; he is meek and riding on an ***, and a young foal.
http://biblehub.com/sep/zechariah/9.htm

And with the Matthew passage we have three witnesses that are all in agreement: you therefore deal treacherously with the scripture, as well as your friend Cobra who has accused me of over-spiritualizing Matthew while he himself did the same thing you are doing by spiritualizing Zec 9:9 in the Hebrew, ignoring the Septuagint text, and hanging Matthew out to dry by reading that text as literal and physical in meaning so you can accuse Matthew of being in error. It is two-faced and hypocritical as well as wicked and deceitful balances in your dealings with supernal and prophetic words. You cannot have it both ways: if you are going to spiritualize Zechariah, and call it "poetry", then do the same with Matthew. Just because you do not understand it does not mean it is erroneous.

How do you interpret these sentences?
________________________________

He went to an established school and a good one.

It was the best of times. It was the worst of times.

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
This nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings...
This land of such dear souls, this dear dear land...

O LORD, rebuke me not in thine anger, neither chasten me in thy hot displeasure.

The team was high in the standings and the players were having fun.
________________________________

Is it necessary, in these examples, to separate the ideas presented to such an extent as to think that different things are being talked about or just different aspects of the same thing?

 

[daqq]

You need proof that the golden altar of incense was used daily and the Holy Of Holies was only entered once a year?

This is new information for you?

Yes, once a year the priest took the censer into the Holy Of Holies.

The Holy Of Holies did not hold the altar of incense. It was outside the curtain, and only taken in once a year.

I am surprised this is news to you.

Exodus 30 “Make an altar of acacia wood for burning incense. 2 It is to be square, a cubit long and a cubit wide, and two cubits high —its horns of one piece with it. 3 Overlay the top and all the sides and the horns with pure gold, and make a gold molding around it. 4 Make two gold rings for the altar below the molding—two on each of the opposite sides—to hold the poles used to carry it. 5 Make the poles of acacia wood and overlay them with gold. 6 Put the altar in front of the curtain that shields the ark of the covenant law—before the atonement cover that is over the tablets of the covenant law—where I will meet with you. 7 “Aaron must burn fragrant incense on the altar every morning when he tends the lamps. 8 He must burn incense again when he lights the lamps at twilight so incense will burn regularly before the LORD for the generations to come

Twice a day, every day, the golden altar of incense was used. It was not held in the Holy Of Holies. The error in the text is clear.

You cannot perceive the difference between a censer and an altar and yet you have the arrogance and gall to make your accusation? "Bailiff, remove this dead one and take him away from my courtroom: bind him hand and foot, and cast him into the outer darkness of Lazarus, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, and when the Son of Man comes he will teach him like Gideon taught the men of Sukkoth", (with thorns and briers of the desert, lol).

 

[Lon]

And you do clearly seem to be denying the power of God to raise people from the dead today.

I don't deny God's power.

Do you deny that He heals people too?

:nono:

We do all fall short.

Appreciate that.