Lon
Well-known member
Me too. Paul was very clear on what to do with false teachers and false prophets to protect the body in love. :up:
Satan, Inc (TOL's heretic's list)
- Thread starter Choleric
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Ask Mr. Religion
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In the world it is called Tolerance, but in hell it is called Despair for it is the sin that believes in nothing, cares for nothing, seeks to know nothing,interferes with nothing, enjoys nothing, hates nothing, finds purpose in nothing, lives for nothing, and remains alive because there is nothing for which it will die.
We shouldn’t judge people. This one we hear from both the world and the church. With the church it even comes complete with a proof-text, Matthew 7:1. While Jesus warns us to not be too quick to judge, to judge with charity, to judge in a manner we would like to be judged, even He is in this very text calling us to judge, but to judge well. A blanket condemnation of all judging is, well, condemning, and therefore judging. It is hoisted on its own petard.
Christians shouldn’t divide over doctrine. The first question I have is, “Well, what should we divide over?” But the more foundational question is, “Who are the Christians?” There are issues that divide Christians. But there are also issues that divide Christians from non-Christians, some of whom actually claim to be Christians. Is claiming to be Christian sufficient to preclude division? Not according to the Bible. The New Testament tells us to have nothing to do with those who preach a different gospel (Galatians 1:8). That’s a doctrinal matter. It tells us we should have nothing to do with professing believers who are sexually immoral (I Corinthians 5). That’s a doctrinal matter. But worst of all, are not those who make this claim dividing themselves from Christians who believe we should divide over doctrine? The statement itself is doctrine, and is divisive.
Rumor is that the Soviets when fighting in Afghanistan, in an effort to discourage the Afghans took to booby-trapping toys. I suspect these little nuggets of received wisdom I noted above are the devil’s own version of the same strategy. We play with these intellectual toys, but soon enough they blow up in our hands.
Anyone here who feels compelled to push the boundaries on core doctrines won’t find some very welcoming. This may come across as some sort of fundamentalist fanaticism, but I do study the Scriptures daily, and I am transformed by them. I also remain convinced of the wisdom of the forefathers that came before us when I read what they have written and compare their writings to Scripture. Not a week goes by that someone somewhere decides they have a new view, new perspective, or new interpretation related to the fundamentals of our faith; despite their having withstood the test of time and painful examination for many, many, hundreds of years.
Thus I become very concerned about discussions that start to challenge the core aspects of our faith. For those who see themselves as theological sophisticates, I would ask that these persons seek a more pastoral approach, rather than trying to be innovative. I recognize that within theological circles it seems that only if one is radical or a trail-blazer that they garner attention. But the constant plowing up of new ground is not what I see as the task of theology. Indeed, I am very content to stop, ponder, and be satisfied to walk in the same steps of those who have come before me. In fact, being more willing to so is what is needed today, versus demonstrations to others how wonderful a person’s insightful exegesis, logic, or sophisticated reasoning may be.
There is nothing about the Christian faith about being silent in the face of incorrect doctrine or beliefs. Indeed, Christians are admonished to be alert, or suffer the consequences:
Eze 33:6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet, so that the people are not warned, and the sword comes and takes any one of them, that person is taken away in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at the watchman's hand.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward.
In other words, Christians are to stand firm in the truth concerning the Lord Jesus Christ so that our labors will not have been in vain, and so that we will receive a full reward. False teachers must never be ignored by the faithful:
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
When John writes in 2 John 1:9, “goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ,” he is speaking of false teachers. To transgress is to go beyond the allowed bounds. That is what the cults do; they claim to have new light and teach doctrines that God has not revealed in His word. The cults do not stay within the bounds of the Christian revelation, or abide in the doctrine of Christ, meaning the teachings which Christ Himself brought. The apostle emphasizes in 2 John 1:9 that a cultist may claim to know God, but if he does not believe in the absolute deity and humanity of the Lord Jesus, he does not have God at all. We are solemnly admonished to avoid any association with false teachers.
2 Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
2 Jn 1:11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Christians must be alert to the "it is ok to believe whatever you want to believe as long as you are sincere" attitudes that are quickly dominating our world. To those persons I must say, "that just won't do".
For me, religious pluralism does nothing but dilute the biblical message from Christianity’s God: that there is but one path to eternal redemption. In the spirit of 1 Pe. 3:16-17, I will continue to treat those that disagree with me respectfully and hope for rational and intelligent dialogue, but I won't ransom away what I believe in favor of some sort of ecumenical détente.
Christ makes it very clear to us:
Luk 12:51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.
For me, Christ's words disprove any notions that Jesus came to unite all humanity (godly and ungodly) into a single "universal brotherhood of man." Rather, He divided them as they have never been divided before.
AMR
Oh really AMR?
Maybe you should consider retirement? That's what the forefathers did.
First of all not all of us are called to be watchmen on the wall. Some of us are actually called to
"Tear down that wall!"
Just like what happened to 70Jerusalem. So save your OT quotes for the circumcision.
As for your pluralism
You are here ain't ya?
(But I will agree with you on the antichrist. That is an office held in trust for those who are Christ killers.)
As to the universal brotherhood
Your notion is an out right falsehood.
Maybe you should consider retirement? That's what the forefathers did.
First of all not all of us are called to be watchmen on the wall. Some of us are actually called to
"Tear down that wall!"
Just like what happened to 70Jerusalem. So save your OT quotes for the circumcision.
As for your pluralism
You are here ain't ya?
(But I will agree with you on the antichrist. That is an office held in trust for those who are Christ killers.)
As to the universal brotherhood
Your notion is an out right falsehood.
I have difficulty accepting Calvinism as being a legitimate form of Christianity. First of all in spite of the fact the Bible makes it quite clear that God's Grace is open to anyone who hears the Gospel and places their faith in Christ, the Calvinists insist on believing that God chose before the foundation of the world who would be saved and who would suffer eternal damnation. That doctrine is in conflict with the openness of God's purpose of desiring ALL to be saved. Christ died on the cross for the sins of ALL humanity. However, only those who hear the Gospel and place their faith in Christ will reap the benefits.
Calvinists believe humanity is totally depraved and have no free-will to choose Christ as their Savior. The Calvinists (Reform Theology) believe that one must first be regenerated before receiving saving faith. It's the old "cart before the horse" example. Calvinism is a man made belief system that is in direct contradiction to the Holy Scriptures. I read and study the whole Bible and see humanities free-will throughout the Old and New Testament. A person would have to be blind not to see it? Yet, the Calvinists insist it's not there? It seems their indoctrination into the "system" has a blinding effect on their logic/reason? One of Calvinism's proponents was John Calvin himself. If you've ever read this man's history you'll see that he was a tyrannical man who was given a certain amount of power over the folks around him. He had the power of life and death over those who opposed his beliefs. He stands guilty of having several people burned at the stake. He also participated in the deaths of those he considered witches. Calvin desired that one of his victims be burned at the stake using green wood which burned more slowly and guaranteed a more lengthy and tortuous death.
Calvin was called "The Pope of Geneva." He came out of the Catholic church but held onto some of the Catholic doctrines. It was said of him: "You can take Calvin out of the Catholic church but you cannot take the Catholic church out of John Calvin." He was a wicked and cruel individual. I've heard it said that his followers have the "spirit of Calvin." It has been my experience that Calvinists are usually, intelligent, arrogant, egocentric types. After all, they call themselves, "The Elect." Calvinism changes the character and intent of the God of the Bible in order for Him to fit into their "belief system." The Calvinist god isn't the same God that I see.
I first heard the Gospel in 1963. I've been a believer since that time.
I'm 65 now and still can't see the "Calvinist god" in the Scriptures? The Calvinist god doesn't resemble the God of the Bible. Granted, Calvinists are very intelligent "Wordsmiths" and can articulate their belief system extremely well, however, that doesn't make their "religion" correct. As for me, I'll stick with the God of the Bible.
Calvinists believe humanity is totally depraved and have no free-will to choose Christ as their Savior. The Calvinists (Reform Theology) believe that one must first be regenerated before receiving saving faith. It's the old "cart before the horse" example. Calvinism is a man made belief system that is in direct contradiction to the Holy Scriptures. I read and study the whole Bible and see humanities free-will throughout the Old and New Testament. A person would have to be blind not to see it? Yet, the Calvinists insist it's not there? It seems their indoctrination into the "system" has a blinding effect on their logic/reason? One of Calvinism's proponents was John Calvin himself. If you've ever read this man's history you'll see that he was a tyrannical man who was given a certain amount of power over the folks around him. He had the power of life and death over those who opposed his beliefs. He stands guilty of having several people burned at the stake. He also participated in the deaths of those he considered witches. Calvin desired that one of his victims be burned at the stake using green wood which burned more slowly and guaranteed a more lengthy and tortuous death.
Calvin was called "The Pope of Geneva." He came out of the Catholic church but held onto some of the Catholic doctrines. It was said of him: "You can take Calvin out of the Catholic church but you cannot take the Catholic church out of John Calvin." He was a wicked and cruel individual. I've heard it said that his followers have the "spirit of Calvin." It has been my experience that Calvinists are usually, intelligent, arrogant, egocentric types. After all, they call themselves, "The Elect." Calvinism changes the character and intent of the God of the Bible in order for Him to fit into their "belief system." The Calvinist god isn't the same God that I see.
I first heard the Gospel in 1963. I've been a believer since that time.
I'm 65 now and still can't see the "Calvinist god" in the Scriptures? The Calvinist god doesn't resemble the God of the Bible. Granted, Calvinists are very intelligent "Wordsmiths" and can articulate their belief system extremely well, however, that doesn't make their "religion" correct. As for me, I'll stick with the God of the Bible.
Maybe you should face a little know fact?
War is no place for about 99.9% of old people.
Here is how to apply the above fact to the Christians.
In God's dealings with Pharoh God hardened Pharoh's heart. (That is Calvinism.).
As God continues to deal with His children their hearts are continually softened by the Father's hand. Old Christians can't help it. They generally end up soft hearted 'old fools'. Which is great in peace time.
THERE IS NO PEACE SAITH MY GOD TO THE WICKED
War is no place for about 99.9% of old people.
Here is how to apply the above fact to the Christians.
In God's dealings with Pharoh God hardened Pharoh's heart. (That is Calvinism.).
As God continues to deal with His children their hearts are continually softened by the Father's hand. Old Christians can't help it. They generally end up soft hearted 'old fools'. Which is great in peace time.
THERE IS NO PEACE SAITH MY GOD TO THE WICKED
I don't even understand what you just said? Are you an illiterate my fiend? By the way, you spelled Alzheimers wrong. It would probably best if you got some form of schooling?
You seem to dislike older folks? Are you in your 20s kid? If you're any older, I worry about your odd mindset.
It would be best if you used "Spellcheck?" That way you wouldn't look like such a dolt. Get it? Probably not.
You do realize that one need only study the history of historical figures in order to determine what kind of person they were, correct? Your poor spelling is giving you away.
You sure are an angry little curmudgeon.
Zeke
Well-known member
Luke 17:20-21 still stumps the cultured/reformed/domesticated and certified persona, The intent of scripture deals with the inward war that goes on in the mind seeded and perverted from birth by Babylonian culture, which is patronized sadly by those claiming to be spiritually aware of the Divine Laws that teach against impersonation, which why all who were born of the spirit received a new name/way, loyalty to this worlds system is a trap embraced by the institutional Churches that teach thunder concerning flesh and blood instead of the still small voice of the Spirit 1Cor 13.
Grosnic,
You know it's a long way to the top of TOL's heretic list, you are never going to make first place. It's your smell. You smell like you just spent several months in a nursing home. Tryin to recover from that old old Old Testament ailment of
ONCE CIRCUMCISED ALWAYS CIRCUMCISED
i opened a thread for you on the subject. If you can see it then why don't you go there.
As for this heretic list
I don't have even one relative in a nursing home as far as I know. But I bet there are a whole lot of posters here in this thread who enjoyed warehousing their parents. It was such a relief for them to get that aged monkey off their backs.
If you would like to know who the real heretics are I think you should go ask some of the residents in your local nursing home.
American heretics are people who warehouse old people like convicts.
You know it's a long way to the top of TOL's heretic list, you are never going to make first place. It's your smell. You smell like you just spent several months in a nursing home. Tryin to recover from that old old Old Testament ailment of
ONCE CIRCUMCISED ALWAYS CIRCUMCISED
i opened a thread for you on the subject. If you can see it then why don't you go there.
As for this heretic list
I don't have even one relative in a nursing home as far as I know. But I bet there are a whole lot of posters here in this thread who enjoyed warehousing their parents. It was such a relief for them to get that aged monkey off their backs.
If you would like to know who the real heretics are I think you should go ask some of the residents in your local nursing home.
American heretics are people who warehouse old people like convicts.
Lon
Well-known member
No, the new-age message that you don't need anything and God is within is a heinous affront to the gospel and the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ becomes nothing more than a guru to follow rather than ZCreator and Savior of mankind.
This would have been terrible news for me, Zeke. I needed a new heart and I needed a Savior. I had a lot to be forgiven for and I had a lot of needed change that only a remake could allow.
It 'sounds' like you may have realized you needed a Savior and needed a new heart as well?
Sometimes I think you missed the forest for the trees attending some church somewhere that was perhaps not spiritually alive. Saul kicked against the Lord Jesus Christ, all the while thinking he was serving God in zeal. It seems you are caught doing similar but I'm convinced New-Age philosophy is no fitting match to Christianity.
Bociferous
New member
Hello Mr Religion,
Quite a tome. Allow me a few points...
I find your apparent contempt for "...a person’s insightful exegesis, logic, or sophisticated reasoning..." if it differs from the traditional an amusing position for a Calvinist to take as Calvinist's generally seem to consider themselves champions of the highest order of logic, coherence and common sense. And this raises an important question: If you're only willing to accept as true doctrines those which fall into the traditional camp, how are you in any sense qualified to judge, with any degree of accuracy or objectivity, those interpretations of Scripture which challenge your own?
Quite a tome. Allow me a few points...
If you read into my single sentence that I'm someone who holds to a blanket condemnation of all judging let me gently suggest you find out what I actually stand for. Briefly, I stand for one being careful to condemn and judge [in, I believe, the proper context and spirit of Mat 7:1and Luke 18:10-14] lest one find the righteousness used to condemn is itself found lacking. It may turn out that 'truthsmacking' is only arrogance in disguise. This is a potential danger to all of us in this day of 'in your face' debate and discussion. I've been chagrined to find myself on the wrong end of this gun more often than I like to admit.
Now we're getting to the interesting stuff AMR. Let's explore this a bit.
It does, and I'm glad to hear you're transformed by God's word. I share a deep respect with you for God's written word.
As do our Catholic brethren. I assume we'd agree that neither tradition nor doctrine is identical to truth, however.
I'm sure this is your way of letting me know that my universalist, allegorical approach to salvation places me squarely in your bull's eye. Thanks for sharing.
I'm hardly one of those. I only finished 9th grade, but did get my GED some years after quitting school.
This pretty much sums up the status quo of most traditional Christians. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't it also the position held by the Pharisees with reference to Jesus' teachings?
I find your apparent contempt for "...a person’s insightful exegesis, logic, or sophisticated reasoning..." if it differs from the traditional an amusing position for a Calvinist to take as Calvinist's generally seem to consider themselves champions of the highest order of logic, coherence and common sense. And this raises an important question: If you're only willing to accept as true doctrines those which fall into the traditional camp, how are you in any sense qualified to judge, with any degree of accuracy or objectivity, those interpretations of Scripture which challenge your own?
Lon
Well-known member
Of course it does:
Clear enough, no? Your rejection of Paul makes your 'feel the love' fairly clear, though.
Let's see (note it applies to a particular heresy, but also note what is to be done in the case of heresy et al):
So, it isn't just Paul, but John and the other Apostles as well. There are problems with false teaching that require we have nothing to do with such. It'd only cause division and disruption. It is very strange to see Pharisees scapegoated today by every cult and cult-minded. It is excuse-looking and trying to condemn Christ's body the Church. Why is it cult mentality? Because Christ said He'd build His church. If that isn't happening the one of hundreds of you cultists are right but the way you are popping up, we are talking about really odd and self-elevating theologies that go beyond reasonable, scriptural, or justifiable.
Well, with a ninth-grade education...
Calvinism is a systematic theology. While Jansenists were thrown out of the RC, it was the semi-pelagian order that was instrumental in ousting them and they were part of the RC for 200 years (or longer if you count in Augustinian and Thomist influence and adherence).
In Protestant churches, there are a fair mix of Calvinists beside Arminians. Spurgeon, a Calvinist, gave accolades to Whitfield and Wesley and such admiration was mutual. There are those who would make the rift pronounced, but a good many of us belong to the same churches because the difference is more the way we organize our beliefs and not on church-splitting essentials as Universalism is. That greatly disrupts the Christian message of scripture and will always and purposefully require "having nothing to do with." It is vehemently against the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The forrest for the trees?
That's like thinking that South Africa is one possible political model for America when the Protestants don't own anything. Very foolish.
Protestant America had its last President. Those Protestants including the Calvinists are going to be leaving very shortly.
That's like thinking that South Africa is one possible political model for America when the Protestants don't own anything. Very foolish.
Protestant America had its last President. Those Protestants including the Calvinists are going to be leaving very shortly.
Since I'm a crank I will share a secret with you old dried up senile wobblely smelly heretical Protestants.
While it is true that the gates of hell cannot prevail
The end of a church is as at the first
Christ appoints with blood and ends in flood
And only the quake is left in His wake
While it is true that the gates of hell cannot prevail
The end of a church is as at the first
Christ appoints with blood and ends in flood
And only the quake is left in His wake