Salvation Through Mary?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Eagles Wings is correct.
Saying a Rosary or even one Hail Mary is not a part of the Mass.
Perpetual virginity? Sure- she would have treated her womb as holy, and not having other children to attend to.
Sinless? Meh.
It really depends on how one wants to define 'sinless'. She had the miraculous conception at a probable age of 16 and raised the Messiah, how much sin would one say she committed :idunno:
Sinless? Meh.
It really depends on how one wants to define 'sinless'. She had the miraculous conception at a probable age of 16 and raised the Messiah, how much sin would one say she committed :idunno:
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Hey Jerry.
You are reading the words but missing the meaning.
If I do the same thing that you are doing with Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:22 I'd have to conclude that Paul thinks that he is a Savior.
Actually, so should you in order to be consistent. After all, Paul clearly says he saves some.
But that would be wrong. We would be reading the words but missing his meaning.
That is what you seem content to be doing with the Pope's letter.
I am not going to try to change your mind. It seems to be made up.
How about commenting on the following passage from the Catechism that shows that you are misunderstanding what the Pope meant and that salvation is through Jesus Christ only in the ultimate sense:
"It is the divine name that alone brings salvation." (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 432).
That quote is in direct contradiction to your unsubstantiated claim that you have made before that The Church teaches that we are saved by the name of Mary.
The Church simply doesn't teach that.
Peace.
241. Mary, the Mother who cared for Jesus, now cares with maternal affection and pain for this wounded world. Just as her pierced heart mourned the death of Jesus, so now she grieves for the sufferings of the crucified poor and for the creatures of this world laid waste by human power. Completely transfigured, she now lives with Jesus, and all creatures sing of her fairness. She is the Woman, “clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars” (Rev 12:1). Carried up into heaven, she is the Mother and Queen of all creation. In her glorified body, together with the Risen Christ, part of creation has reached the fullness of its beauty. She treasures the entire life of Jesus in her heart (cf. Lk 2:19,51), and now understands the meaning of all things. Hence, we can ask her to enable us to look at this world with eyes of wisdom.
Here is the interpretation of revelations 12 by Pope Francis. Israel is mother of the man-child not mother Mary. The crown of twelve stars is the 12 disciples that so conveniently are on the EU flag or the new Holy Roman Empire.
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Here is the interpretation of revelations 12 by Pope Francis. Israel is mother of the man-child not mother Mary. The crown of twelve stars is the 12 disciples that so conveniently are on the EU flag or the new Holy Roman Empire.
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According to the Quran, Jesus was born miraculously by the will of God without a father. His mother is regarded as a chaste and virtuous woman and is said to have been a virgin. The Quran states clearly that Jesus was the result of a virgin birth, but that neither Mary nor her son were divine.
Catholics gave something in common with Islam.
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Catholics gave something in common with Islam.
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Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Amen, Bright Raven.
And the Catholic Church teaches that exact same thing in paragraph 432 of the Catechism. (quoted below).
People who think otherwise are misunderstanding Catholic teaching and creating straw man arguments.
"The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption from sins. It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
Peace.
Go away.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Hi balut55,
Do you have a link or source that you can give me so I can read Pope Francis' interpretation of Revelation 12?
I'd like to take a look at that sometime.
Thanks.
Peace.
I didn't post it. Why should I go away. Your doctrine is just like any church doctrine. It sets you apart from the true God family that is outside the church. Pope Francis already stated "you can't be a Christian outside the Catholic Church. Do you have any idea that he is setting up martyrdom for the heretics by that statement?
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Just google Pope Francis encyclical. You will also see that he is gonna do God's Jubilee. Each individual's pursuit of wealth is the problem. He is a minion puppet just like Trump.
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beameup
New member
Wasn't the Pope influenced by Marxist-based "Liberation Theology" while in South America?
Trump is pure Capitalist, so I see no connection whatsoever. Neo-Marxists push for "Globalism"
and redistribution of wealth. The Globalists dream of a "One-World Government".
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
It is you who is missing the meaning, not me. What is said by Rome here has nothing at all to do with what Paul said at 1 Corinthians 9:22:
"Since faith is the foundation, the source, of the gifts of God by which man is raised above the order of nature and is endowed with the dispositions requisite for life eternal, we are in justice bound to recognize the hidden influence of Mary in obtaining the gift of faith and its salutary cultivation - of Mary who brought the "author of faith" into this world and who, because of her own great faith, was called 'blessed.' 'O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee" (ADIUTRICEM (On the Rosary), Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII, promulgated on September 5, 1895).
Here we see that Rome teaches that no one can have the knowledge of God EXCEPT THROUGH HER.
Since it is by "faith" that a person comes to the knowledge of God then Rome is teaching that no one can have faith except through Mary and hence no one can be saved except through her. That is why we read:
"None, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee."
That idea is directly contradicted by what Peter said here:
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12).
Rome teaches that there is salvation in another, and that other is Mary.
Was Mary a sinner?