Robert's Gospel According to the Apostle Paul

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clefty

New member
musterion said:
Is English your first language?
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Actually...no it ain’t...

So...

Was Robert banned because his message “the law is abolished” (which is a jewish fable BTW) is disruptive to the gospel?

Or

Was Robert banned because the way he spread this false witness message was disruptive here on TOL?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
clefty said:
Actually...no it ain’t...

So...

Was Robert banned because his message “the law is abolished” (which is a jewish fable BTW) is disruptive to the gospel?

Or

Was Robert banned because the way he spread this false witness message was disruptive here on TOL?
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Why are you asking me? Like I said earlier, I can't see the writeup for his ban.
 
C

clefty

New member
musterion said:
Why are you asking me? Like I said earlier, I can't see the writeup for his ban.
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Ok...fine

You offered the link...I don’t have access either

Before that you said he was disruptive...so wanted specifics as to not violate TOL policy myself



Thanks
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Banned
Right Divider said:
I guess that putting you back on my ignore list will help.
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Fair enough. But I do not know how ignoring me will promote interactive dialog? In other words, how do you hope to progress in your conversation with me if you can't voice your disapproval for whatever it is that you disapprove of? Not everyone agrees, but shutting down a conversation is a drastic maneuver and I don't see why you want to do it.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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clefty said:
Hope I dont regret trying to unpack this for you...

The ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is different then we who also consider ourselves sons of Yah

This only begotten Son called us who are believers (who are doers of the will of His Father) His brothers...His mother even...

But as an ONLY BEGOTTEN SON He was AFTER His Father...finally begotten some time after the Immortal Father...but certainly from the beginning of man’s account...since before the foundation of this world...

but yes NOT as infinite into the past as His Father...there was then a time without the Son before He was BEGOTTEN...and He was begotten not created btw...

and now begotten He is as ETERNAL as HIS FATHER is...and as we will be...we however are NOT IMMORTAL nor divine...but are dependent on HIM by way of tree of life to live forever....

And since from the time of His begotteness He is eternal...MADE OF HIS FATHER THUS DIVINE...not like us made from the ground and MORTAL...but yes we are sons of Yah too...through His Begotten Son...and now though fallen we have a chance to be restored through HIM to enter eternal life again...

Jews reject their god had a son...so well...Christians and Jews do not worship the SAME GOD...NEWSFLASH I know...

Jews are Muslim about it allowing for the Son to be a man but at least muslims think He was a good man...jews however consider the divine begotten Son an idolatrous abomination...a blasphemer and His believers the same

When a jew says ABBA they insert themselves ALONE as His chosen children the rest of a distant second...but when Christians say Father they believe He had a Son begotten...made of Him His very substance and not dust...

So His ONLY BEGOTTEN Son is divine...which jews reject and despise...odd you would wish to be a jew as it cancels your believership...

Paul was clear NO MORE JEWS...nor gentiles IN HIM...you MUST give up your Jewishness that demands only ONE DIVINE BEING...

As He begot an only Son...also divine...
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I know that you do not understand. No one is better than anyone else. If you learn the name of the God of Israel you will understand it is the same God Christians claim.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
I know that you do not understand.
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Your post #542 I do not know. I have accepted it since I was a child. It is fundamental.

Your post #546 I do not know it to be true. (regarding His divinity)

Your post #549 A discussion is different from jumping to the conclusion that someone is wrong.


No one is better than anyone else.
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is exactly NOT what jews believe which is also evidenced in scripture...

If you learn the name of the God of Israel you will understand it is the same God Christians claim.
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also NOT what jews believe and is evidenced in scripture...

jews reject Yah had an only begotten Son...Who is also divine...and able to forgive sins...teaching we ALL can forgive and be forgiven our own and each other’s debt through Him...is why they HATE Him...He made them, their priests, their temple, their own temporal world power vision and mission, all of it, null and void

So they HATE Him the only begotten Son of Yah...also divine...Is why they are the synagogue of Satan...their father a father of LIES

In in this begotten divine Son of Yah there is no more jew as a jews must reject their jewishness...reject that their god is only one and not two...because of Him they MUST reject the messiah has NOT come and their need of a temple its blood shedding...

In Him their desire for world conquest is revealed...of course they HATE Him and would gladly crucify Him again...and by Rome again...

And it was lying jews who bore false witness saying He abolished their Laws...

sadly through them their father of lies deceived christendom too...



So there you go...jews and christians do NOT worship the same God...

Even in Acts...there were myriads of jews who believed in the Divine Son and were STILL zealous of the law and customs of Moses...

But they were then considered a heretical and blasphemous sect known as “the Way” and rejected dismissed and sought to be killed...by the jews who thought themselves better...and still do
 
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Jacob

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
clefty said:
Your post #542 I do not know. I have accepted it since I was a child. It is fundamental.

Your post #546 I do not know it to be true. (regarding His divinity)

Your post #549 A discussion is different from jumping to the conclusion that someone is wrong.


is exactly NOT what jews believe which is also evidenced in scripture...

also NOT what jews believe and is evidenced in scripture...

jews reject Yah had an only begotten Son...Who is also divine...and able to forgive sins...teaching we ALL can forgive and be forgiven our own and each other’s debt through Him...is why they HATE Him...He made them, their priests, their temple, their own temporal world power vision and mission, all of it, null and void

So they HATE Him the only begotten Son of Yah...also divine...Is why they are the synagogue of Satan...their father a father of LIES

In in this begotten divine Son of Yah there is no more jew as a jews must reject their jewishness...reject that their god is only one and not two...because of Him they MUST reject the messiah has NOT come and their need of a temple its blood shedding...

In Him their desire for world conquest is revealed...of course they HATE Him and would gladly crucify Him again...and by Rome again...

And it was lying jews who bore false witness saying He abolished their Laws...

sadly through them their father of lies deceived christendom too...



So there you go...jews and christians do NOT worship the same God...

Even in Acts...there were myriads of jews who believed in the Divine Son and were STILL zealous of the law and customs of Moses...

But they were then considered a heretical and blasphemous sect known as “the Way” and rejected dismissed and sought to be killed...by the jews who thought themselves better...and still do
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You are confused. God did choose us. But not to make us better than anyone else.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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clefty said:
nope

nope He chose your father Abraham made a promise to him...yours just happen to be part of Israel...

not what you thought as you decided to join them who reject Him His Son as not good enough...
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Incorrect. Becoming a Jew with a belief in Yeshua as the Messiah does not help anyone else. It is simply a choice to observe God's commandments in obedience to Yeshua's instruction. Otherwise, I could obey all of God's commandments as a Christian, which alas is possible but has been discouraged. I am not aligning myself with Christ killers or something negative.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
Incorrect. Becoming a Jew with a belief in Yeshua as the Messiah does not help anyone else.
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You clearly miss that belief in Yeshua is in conflict with being jewish? Paul was clear in Yeshua there is no jew...is why they HATE Him

It is simply a choice to observe God's commandments in obedience to Yeshua's instruction.
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yes that is why myriads of jews were believers but still zealous for the Law Acts 21:20...however other non believing jews kicked them out as being heretical and blasephemous because the jewish god has had no divine son...and no messiah has came yet...thus the need for temple et al...believing jews were considered IDOLATROUS...worshipping a false god...

So first century believing jews were driven off but remained faithful to the law for at least a few centuries...however finally that jewish fable that the law was done away with at the cross became the predominant teaching by overwhelming gentiles who wanted Yeshua but not the law...the law was too jewish

while jews who did not believe Yeshua merely continued to keep only the law...teaching the law was not for gentiles as the cross destroyed the law...

You can only go from being jew or gentile to being IN HIM...but you can NOT remain jew or gentile/greek IN HIM...

Because jews dont accept/believe in Yeshua as a divine Son and the Greeks/gentiles do NOT ACCEPT/BELIEVE the Sabbath and festivals and kosher diet...if Greeks/gentiles DO accept/believe Yeshua they are no longer just greek/gentiles

Ya dig?...


Otherwise, I could obey all of God's commandments as a Christian, which alas is possible but has been discouraged.
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yes of course...and NOW WITH HIM YOU WANT TO AND CAN KEEP TO DO HIS FATHER’S WILL...but yes this IS discouraged by both christians and jews...BECAUSE THE JEWISH FABLE IS THAT THE LAW WAS DESTROYED AT THE CROSS in order to seperate jews from gentiles again...

I am not aligning myself with Christ killers or something negative.
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you are exactly doing that...rejecting Him His Work by replacing the wall between jew and gentile...as if what He did was not enough...you can keep and SHOULD WANT TO KEEP the Law as a believer but NOT as a jew...because the jews do NOT believe this Son of Yah is divine nor the messiah
 
Jacob

Jacob

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clefty said:
You clearly miss that belief in Yeshua is in conflict with being jewish? Paul was clear in Yeshua there is no jew...is why they HATE Him

yes that is why myriads of jews were believers but still zealous for the Law Acts 21:20...however other non believing jews kicked them out as being heretical and blasephemous because the jewish god has had no divine son...and no messiah has came yet...thus the need for temple et al...

So first century believing jews were driven off but remained faithful to the law for at least a few centuries...however finally that jewish fable the law was done away with at the cross became the predominant teaching by overwhelming gentiles who wanted Yeshua but not the law...the law was too jewish

while jews who did not believe Yeshua merely continued to keep only the law...teaching the law was not for gentiles as the cross destroyed the law...

You can only go from jew or gentile to IN HIM...but you cant remain jew or gentile IN HIM...


yes of course...and discouraged by both christians and jews...

you are exactly doing that...rejecting Him His Work by replacing the wall between jew and gentile...as if what He did was not enough...you can keep and SHOULD WANT TO KEEP the Law as a believer but not as a jew...because the jews do NOT believe this Son of Yah is divine nor the messiah
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Incorrect. The Messiah is for the Jew first. In Him we find salvation.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
Incorrect. The Messiah is for the Jew first. In Him we find salvation.
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The messiah is for the jew first but the jews REJECTED Him...they killed their husband annulled their contract as death did you and Him part...now He looks for another wife...His taste remains the same...NEW contract SAME terms...

if you were born a jew and believe in Yeshua you just stamped your ticket out of Jewishness...

Jews believe their god has had no son...messiah is still to come...and they need the temple its priests and sacrifices for forgiveness...and that they are chosen above gentiles...to heal the world by ruling it

You thought they were correct so you decided to join them...DESPITE WHAT HE DID to make a new man of the two and find peace Eph 2:15

In doing so you replace the wall between jew and gentile...becoming JEW and no longer believer...
 
Jacob

Jacob

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clefty said:
The messiah is for the jew first but the jews REJECTED Him...they killed their husband annulled their contract as death did you and Him part...now He looks for another wife...His taste remains the same...NEW contract SAME terms...

if you were born a jew and believe in Yeshua you just stamped your ticket out of Jewishness...

Jews believe their god has had no son...messiah is still to come...and they need the temple its priests and sacrifices for forgiveness...and that they are chosen above gentiles...to heal the world by ruling it

You thought they were correct so you decided to join them...DESPITE WHAT HE DID to make a new man of the two and find peace Eph 2:15

In doing so you replace the wall between jew and gentile...becoming JEW and no longer believer...
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Who said any thing about me not being a believer? I am a believer.
 
Jacob

Jacob

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clefty said:
Then you are not a jew...especially since you were not born one

And becoming one you are no longer a believer...
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Incorrect. Was Matthew 5:17-20 for the Jew or the Gentile or both? Can a Gentile become a Jew according to God's Law? You can do some thinking. I do wear tzitzit, a Torah Commandment.
 
C

clefty

New member
Jacob said:
Incorrect. Was Matthew 5:17-20 for the Jew or the Gentile or both?
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the Law was given to EVERYONE who wished to be with Him...as evidenced directly in the Sabbath command as both Israel and the foreigner were to rest...ONE LAW for native and foreigner was throughout the OT

Can a Gentile become a Jew according to God's Law?
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sure...but why? Becoming a jew is NOT the point but becoming a believer in Yeshua...and as shown earlier IN HIM there is no longer jew or gentile...becoming a jew means you reject the Father had a Son, His divinity, that the messiah came...as a jew you must insist the temple et al is necessary for forgiveness...and in healing the world by ruling it

You can do some thinking. I do wear tzitzit, a Torah Commandment.
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good for you...but none of that ever saved anyone...only He can...and wearing tzitzit is for all of israel not just jews...
 
Jacob

Jacob

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Banned
clefty said:
the Law was given to EVERYONE who wished to be with Him...as evidenced directly in the Sabbath command as both Israel and the foreigner were to rest...ONE LAW for native and foreigner was throughout the OT

sure...but why? Becoming a jew is NOT the point but becoming a believer in Yeshua...and as shown earlier IN HIM there is no longer jew or gentile...becoming a jew means you reject the Father had a Son, His divinity, that the messiah came...as a jew you must insist the temple et al is necessary for forgiveness...and in healing the world by ruling it

good for you...but none of that ever saved anyone...only He can...and wearing tzitzit is for all of israel not just jews...
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I have no problem with being a Jew and of Israel. I chose the tribe of Levi. We do not reject the truth. For me I simply have to get it right.
 
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