Robb Elementary School shooting

[marke]

I have extended family who homeschool, and they've made it through Covid without a ripple to their normal routine. Obviously, they haven't had to personally worry about school shootings. There are advantages to homeschooling, no doubt, but not everyone can homeschool, or has the tools to be a good homeschooling parent. There are charter schools which are a hybrid of school and home, my youngest attended such a charter school and it worked very well for us.

But it sounds like you're advocating that everyone should change their method of schooling in case of a shooter. That didn't help the victims of the 1984 McDonald's shooting in San Ysidro in my county of San Diego. It was the largest mass shooting in history at the time, although it's been eclipsed many times over. 21 dead, 19 injured, inside and outside the restaurant. About 6 of the dead were children, one was a baby. More children, including another baby, were among the injured. He used a shotgun, an Uzi, and a handgun. I'll never forget the photo of the young boy laying where he fell while riding his bicycle outside the restaurant.

It didn't help the victims (26 dead, 22 injured) in the church shooting in Texas, the 60 people killed and 411 wounded in the Vegas music festival shooting, or the 12 killed and 58 injured in the Aurora, CO movie theater shooting.

The gun laws need to change, so parents don't have to go shopping for bullet-proof backpacks for their children.

If you pass a thousand gun laws and seize every gun in the nation from law-abiding citizens, the murderers will still have drugs and guns and will still kill people. Why is that so hard for democrat cultists to understand?

 

[marke]

Better gun control. Red flag laws, waiting periods, background checks, age limits, model and modification limits.



Conservatives who think the answer is to arm all the 'good guys' with guns.

The analogy isn't hard.

What better gun law would have stopped the Sandy Hook killings? The perp did not use a legal gun legally. Would red flag laws have stopped the school shooting in Sandord, FL?

Do we need to send law enforcement chiefs back to better schools of some kind to teach them how to actually deal with serious red flags before a crime is committed instead of waiting till afterward?

Belinda M. Paschal: Mass killers often give warning signs. It's time we heed them.

After mass shootings, hindsight often reveals the shooter showed danger signs. If you see something, say something, Belinda M. Paschal says.

www.dispatch.com

EDITORIALS

Belinda M. Paschal: Mass killers often give warning signs. It's time we heed them.​

Belinda M. Paschal
The Columbus Dispatch

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Belinda M. Paschal is assistant opinon and features editor for The Dispatch.
In the wake of the shootings in Buffalo, New York, and Uvalde, Texas – and practically every other mass slaying in recent history – rhetoric is bandied about regarding the mental health of the perpetrators and how intervention might have helped prevent the tragedies.
More:'It could be you': Mass shooters often warn people before they kill. What you can do to stop them
Each time, we hear the shooter showed “signs” – unsettling words, troubling Facebook posts, disconcerting YouTube videos, and in some cases, outright manifestos outlining their hate and desire or plans to kill.
And each time, nothing is done. After the uproar, gnashing of teeth, hand-wringing, thoughts and prayers wane, everything goes back to normal. Until the next time.

The red flags were there​

More than a month before his 2012 rampage on a Colorado movie theater that left 12 dead and dozens injured, James Holmes raised alarm by telling his psychiatrist he wanted to kill people to compensate for his failure in science at the University of Colorado.
More:Colorado theater shooter James Holmes gets life plus 3,318 years in prison
The head of Holmes’ neuroscience graduate program called a campus police officer with this information, as did the psychiatrist, but the officer did little besides check to see if Holmes had a criminal record and deactivate his campus access cards. The psychiatrist declined to detain Holmes because she feared it would “inflame him.”

 

[Arthur Brain]

Better gun control. Red flag laws, waiting periods, background checks, age limits, model and modification limits.



Conservatives who think the answer is to arm all the 'good guys' with guns.

The analogy isn't hard.

Yep, sensible stuff. The wingnuts who think it should still be okay for anyone to waltz into a gun store at 18 and buy automatic weapons don't care. They all be like "Waah, infringement of our second amendment rights!"

 

[ok doser]

Why is that so hard for democrat cultists to understand?

They are the same retards who thought that defund the police would lead to peaceful cities instead of the hell holes that they have become.

In short the answer to your question is because they are retarded

 

[ok doser]

If the public school teaches your kid that only black livers matter, that white kids need to repent of their greed and racism, that free-market capitalism is wicked, that the Bible lies, that God does not exist or is impotent and evil if He does, and more, then get your kids the heck out of that demonic brain-washing insane asylum.

If the public school doesn't care enough about the safety of your child to provide armed guards, the bare minimum of which surrounds our elected public leaders and our governmental institutions, then get your kids the heck out

 

[Gary K]

A cousin of very good friend of mine's husband shot himself in the face in a suicide attempt. It was caused by the prescription a doctor gave him. It made him psychotic for a week and when he woke up in the hospital he had no idea as to why he was there. This was a couple of months ago and he still has no memory of that entire week.

Who or what should be legislated out of existence to "solve" this problem? The doctor who knowingly prescribed the med? The firearm itself? Who should pay for the wrong done to this guy? Its highly emotional so should emotion be the entire basis of any solution arrived at? Myself, I would have never taken the med as I carefully research all meds I now take after what insulin has done to me. He trusted his doctor not to prescribe anything that would harm him. Big mistake.

 

[Arthur Brain]

A cousin of very good friend of mine's husband shot himself in the face in a suicide attempt. It was caused by the prescription a doctor gave him. It made him psychotic for a week and when he woke up in the hospital he had no idea as to why he was there. This was a couple of months ago and he still has no memory of that entire week.

Who or what should be legislated out of existence to "solve" this problem? The doctor who knowingly prescribed the med? The firearm itself? Who should pay for the wrong done to this guy? Its highly emotional so should emotion be the entire basis of any solution arrived at? Myself, I would have never taken the med as I carefully research all meds I now take after what insulin has done to me. He trusted his doctor not to prescribe anything that would harm him. Big mistake.

As anna said:

Better gun control. Red flag laws, waiting periods, background checks, age limits, model and modification limit.

That sound emotional to you? Not to me it doesn't, it sounds logical and sensible.

 

[Idolater]

I was reminded of this

Yeah. Did that guy get a background check? Can we use a red flag law for him? He's going to hurt himself. Oh, and that stick, what is that, a long-barreled stick? Better call ATS, bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Sticks.

 

[ok doser]

Yeah. Did that guy get a background check? Can we use a red flag law for him? He's going to hurt himself. Oh, and that stick, what is that, a long-barreled stick? Better call ATS, bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Sticks.

It's a high capacity... high velocity... you know, the thing

C'mon man!

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yeah. Did that guy get a background check? Can we use a red flag law for him? He's going to hurt himself. Oh, and that stick, what is that, a long-barreled stick? Better call ATS, bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Sticks.

Everyone should have a background check before being able to purchase a firearm and what's wrong with an age limit and waiting periods etc? Heck, people have to be 21 before they can drink in America right, yet they can buy an assault rifle at leisure when 18 with no fuss? Bonkers. With Matt McConaughey all the way with his recent and there's no partisan politics with the guy. Just common sense.

 

[Gary K]

As anna said:

Better gun control. Red flag laws, waiting periods, background checks, age limits, model and modification limit.

That sound emotional to you? Not to me it doesn't, it sounds logical and sensible.

And how would that have stopped the guy from shooting himself? I see nothing in your solution that would have any effect at all.

 

[Arthur Brain]

And how would that have stopped the guy from shooting himself? I see nothing in your solution that would have any effect at all.

It would stop teenagers from being able to purchase an automatic rifle as if it's a candy bar for starters so of course, you don't see it.

 

[Idolater]

Here's the interview:

The creator of the FBI mass shooting protocol is 'shocked' by Uvalde police response​

Every day, new information surfaces about how law enforcement responded to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, that left 19 students and two teachers dead.

Critics have pointed out failures at nearly every step of that response: the school's resource officer drove by the shooter as he crouched between cars; police waited more than an hour to head into the classroom while the gunman was inside; and the chief of school police showed up without his radio and stopped treating the incident as an active shooter situation.

Katherine Schweit is a former FBI special agent, and created the agency's active shooter program after the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012. She's also the author of the book Stop The Killing: How To End The Mass Shooting Crisis. She joined NPR's All Things Considered to give her perspective on the law enforcement response in Uvalde, and share strategies for students and teachers to better their odds of surviving a mass shooting.

This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.

---

Interview highlights​

On her reaction to how police on the scene reacted:

You know, I'm going to tell you the truth. I was shocked. I was shocked. And at first, it was disbelief. I was like, they can't possibly have had this situation happen there. They're not the first law enforcement community that has had some trip-ups and some challenges in responding to things since I've been working on this. But this was just so there, so challenging to see it unfold and right in front of our eyes. That the law enforcement was there for an hour on the other side of a wall is just unheard of. I couldn't have written this if I'd written a script. People would have said they wouldn't believe it.

On what an ideal response would have been according to the active shooter program she designed:

Let me qualify a little bit and just say, the law enforcement training that the FBI is pushing out and has pushed out for years requires that when there is active shooting underway, even if it's a single officer, you must pursue to the sound of the shooting or where you believe the shooter is. You must pursue all the way to the shooter and neutralize the shooter. That is the lone objective, and that — you should never waver from that.

A law enforcement officer, if they're trained, should continue moving forward, even if it means busting through a door, shooting through a door. I recognize the risks that are going through their heads, 'oh, my gosh, there's children in that classroom. I don't want to hurt a child. I don't want to' — but we need to pursue, pursue, pursue, because the shooters have already proven that they're willing to kill people, and they'll continue doing it. That's why the priority is, you keep moving forward, even if it means you go through walls and if you go through windows and if you go through doors.

On a why she says we need to train children to flee first rather than hide:

When I was working with then-Vice President Biden's team after the Sandy Hook shooting to look for solutions, one of the decisions that we made as a group - all the federal agencies said, 'run, hide, fight' is what people do in a shooting. And 'run, hide, fight' teaches us to do the 'run' part first. What we're teaching kids in school is the 'hide' part, but we're not teaching the 'run' part. We don't do that anyplace else in society. We don't tell kids in a mall, 'OK, just hide. Whatever's going on, hide under the bench at the Starbucks kiosk.' So somehow, when it comes to schools, we missed an opportunity to teach children and teach adults in schools that they need to run. That's the first thing they need to do. They need to escape.

If it's your only response, then, you know, your next response should be to fight. Fight the shooter as long and hard as you can. I know so many heroic stories about people who fought or ran. There were little kids who escaped from the Sandy Hook Elementary School because their teacher stepped up, stood in the way of the shooter, and they escaped out a side door. And the FBI, even just in recent years, released new training that says escape. Your first priority has to be to escape. You just can't be killed if you're not there.

On what she has told her own daughter, a grade school teacher:

I do talk to her about these kinds of things all the time because she's my baby. I'm always going to be worried about her. And if I can empower her with a conversation - and that includes letting her kids run out of her school room, even if the district doesn't teach that. One thing that I think that people don't recognize is how much control they have. They have so much control. Find out what your school is teaching. Talk to your kids about what they're learning. Talk to them about their safety. You talk to them about stranger danger and stop, drop and roll. And you don't talk to them about their own safety in a country right now where we're dealing with gun violence. You should.

That's the one. I misremembered the quote; turns out her actual quote sounds even more pro-homeschooling.

 

[Gary K]

It would stop teenagers from being able to purchase an automatic rifle as if it's a candy bar for starters so of course, you don't see it.

You sound just like Soros. Yeah, I sell out Jews to Nazis to make money. Learning how to make money iss goot, yeah? My conscience not giff me even a twinge.

Nothing but psychopathic liars.

 

[Arthur Brain]

You sound just like Soros. Yeah, I sell out Jews to Nazis to make money. Learning how to make money iss goot, yeah? My conscience not giff me even a twinge.

Nothing but psychopathic liars.

Well, that was loop the loop, then round the big wheel and back again and then on to some unhinged and irrelevant rollercoaster. Having sensible laws in place that prevent teenagers from buying automatic rifles has nothing to do with "making money" you strange person.

 

[Gary K]

Well, that was loop the loop, then round the big wheel and back again and then on to some unhinged and irrelevant rollercoaster. Having sensible laws in place that prevent teenagers from buying automatic rifles has nothing to do with "making money" you strange person.

Now you're just flat out making me laugh.

Stopping a teenager from buying a hunting rifle is going to stop a responsible 40 something year old father and husband from taking a medication known to cause psychotic reactions in some people and having that psychotic reaction and trying to kill himself. That was loop the loop, then around the big wheel and back again and then on to some unhinged and irrelevant roller coaster.

I don't know how you did it but you nailed it. As psychotic as Soros himself.

 

[Idolater]

I have extended family who homeschool, and they've made it through Covid without a ripple to their normal routine. Obviously, they haven't had to personally worry about school shootings. There are advantages to homeschooling, no doubt, but not everyone can homeschool, or has the tools to be a good homeschooling parent. There are charter schools which are a hybrid of school and home, my youngest attended such a charter school and it worked very well for us.

But it sounds like you're advocating that everyone should change their method of schooling in case of a shooter. ...

No. Just noting.

 

[Idolater]

Better gun control. Red flag laws, waiting periods, background checks, age limits, model and modification limits.



Conservatives who think the answer is to arm all the 'good guys' with guns.

The analogy isn't hard.

In the analogy there's the presumption of teachers overseeing the playground, in the real world there's only just the kids on the playground and they all have to figure out the stick matter all by themselves.

 

[annabenedetti]

Learning how to make money iss goot, yeah? My conscience not giff me even a twinge.

Wow. You'd make Goebbels proud.

thugs and Nazi's.

Talk about confession through projection...

 

[Right Divider]

It would stop teenagers from being able to purchase an automatic rifle as if it's a candy bar for starters so of course, you don't see it.

Teenagers cannot buy automatic rifles.