Riots in Ferguson MO. USA

[Christ's Word]

Oh, okay. Thanks. So to know what "actually" happened in Ferguson, folks are better off listening to you, the creepy sovereign citizen lady who weaves self-aggrandizing tales about dinner with SWAT team buddies when she's not frantically posting about the horrors of militarized police because she got pulled over in a standard DUI checkpoint.

Got it.

Also, has anyone ever told you that you remind them of one of those creepy wavy arm balloon people that they have flailing around in the wind at car lots and whatnot? Man, I hate those things.

Idiots like you, who are detached from reality, really need help. Many people have friends who are policeman, you should try it some time. Police are people too.

As far as their bias, it is definitely there. Both officers we had dinner with agreed, that when the boy resisted, it now became about street cred. If the officer had backed off, he would have been run out of town by the thugs. My husband offered an alternative view after asking the question, "Really, millions of dollars of damage, officers hurt, two dead civilians, all over a box of cigars and 'street cred'? All agreed that shooting a fleeing unarmed kid in the back will get this officer fried by a jury.

We all agreed that the Ferguson officer made a number of poor choices, the least of which was not waiting for back up to effect and arrest. We all wondered why a taser was not used, as Ferguson equips all the officers with that choice.

The Sergeant, with over 20 years in, said he thinks the "riot control tactics" stem from being stuck in a 1950's police culture. He said putting 150 guys in a line at an intersection with 4 armored vehicles just makes his guys a target. He would prefer dressing his minority officers with street thug clothing and post them as observers, and then divide the 150 up into platoon sized elements as rapid reaction teams to deal with looters and other trouble makers. My husband concurred that his suggestion would be a major tactical improvement. The other younger officer disagreed, and said the situation is too "primal". He believed that the police needed a huge show of force because the trouble making element needs to know who the biggest toughest bully on the block is. So yes the police have their own bias, based on real world experience having to deal with real threats and survive on the streets where they are hated.

 

[Christ's Word]

Can you really trust SWAT team members to be unbiased?

Clearly NO, you can not. Their bias shows in almost everything they say, but I would say that you can't discount their experiences, those are real and a perspective worth hearing, even if you disagree.

 

[99lamb]

9 pages into this discussion and I didn't see the real issue, was the police action one that was without cause?
Did the police officer randomly approach Mike 'gentle giant' Brown? or was there a reason...such as...Mike and his buddy stole from a convenience store earlier that day?
The whole discussion relies on the premise that the confrontation was random, just another BMW (black man walking) when if truth be told this guy was suspected of criminal activity.

 

[Christ's Word]

9 pages into this discussion and I didn't see the real issue, was the police action one that was without cause?
Did the police officer randomly approach Mike 'gentle giant' Brown? or was there a reason...such as...Mike and his buddy stole from a convenience store earlier that day?
The whole discussion relies on the premise that the confrontation was random, just another BMW (black man walking) when if truth be told this guy was suspected of criminal activity.

All of the policeman we talked to said he was suspected of the cigar incident and that was the reason for the stop. The witnesses on scene, and the boy next to Mike claim the encounter started with a command from the officer to 'get the _____ out of the street!'

When I asked, "who should we believe?", one of the officers said "you know, they graffiti painted the phrase "snitches get stitches" on the side of the Quik Trip Mike Brown stole the cigars from".

 

[Sitamun]

From what I heard, Mike Brown was approached solely because he was "jaywalking" for lack of a better term. The fact that he MAY have been the one who stole a box of cheap cigars worth $50 had nothing to do with the initial stop.

 

[99lamb]

All of the policeman we talked to said he was suspected of the cigar incident and that was the reason for the stop. The witnesses on scene, and the boy next to Mike claim the encounter started with a command from the officer to 'get the _____ out of the street!

When I asked who should we believe, one of the officers said "you know, they graffiti painted the phrase "snitches get stitches" on the side of the Quik Trip Mike stole the cigars from.

The entire incident allows the biases of each side to make their cases.
Having visited St. Louis, liked to visit the Hill, you can clearly see the difference between that section of St. Louis and say ...East St. Louis.
In the Hill we could get out of the car walk around visit the stores and restaurants but in East St. Louis? Nope.

 

[99lamb]

From what I heard, Mike Brown was approached solely because he was "jaywalking" for lack of a better term. The fact that he MAY have been the one who stole a box of cheap cigars worth $50 had nothing to do with the initial stop.

Unless Mike had (allegedly) actually stolen the cigars, and when the police approached him, his reaction (OH CraP!), at the possibility of being arrested precipitated the ensuing conflict...just saying.

 

[Christ's Word]

The entire incident allows the biases of each side to make their cases.
Having visited St. Louis, liked to visit the Hill, you can clearly see the difference between that section of St. Louis and say ...East St. Louis.
In the Hill we could get out of the car walk around visit the stores and restaurants but in East St. Louis? Nope.

The Hill is very nice and great food. Ferguson is more like East St. Louis. One of my daughters friends was cutting the lawn of a rental property in Ferguson about a month ago, he looks Hispanic. Four black youths did a drive by on him from a maroon minivan, while he was on the riding mower.

Like I said, St. Louis County is divided up into more than 75 Municipalities, and they are all different in both culture and crime.

 

[Sitamun]

Unless Mike had (allegedly) actually stolen the cigars, and when the police approached him, his reaction (OH CraP!), at the possibility of being arrested precipitated the ensuing conflict...just saying.

I'm not saying that IF he was the one who stole the cigars, it could have altered his reaction. Just saying that the cop who stopped (and then shot) him, had no idea about the cigars, or that he was a possible suspect.

 

[Christ's Word]

Unless Mike had (allegedly) actually stolen the cigars, and when the police approached him, his reaction (OH CraP!), at the possibility of being arrested precipitated the ensuing conflict...just saying.

I agree, it is hard to know. I suspect the officer was just being bossy jerk when he rolled down his window to tell them to get out of the street, and then realized who he was actually engaging.

 

[Christ's Word]

I'm not saying that IF he was the one who stole the cigars, it could have altered his reaction. Just saying that the cop who stopped (and then shot) him, had no idea about the cigars, or that he was a possible suspect.

He knew about the cigars, every cop on duty knew when the crime was called in. Radio waves travel faster than thugs on foot.

 

[Sitamun]

He knew about the cigars, every cop on duty knew when the crime was called in. Radio waves travel faster than thugs on foot.

The police chief himself stated that the officer DIDN'T KNOW that Brown was a possible suspect in the theft. The theft had NOTHING to do with the stop.

 

[IMJerusha]

http://new.livestream.com/accounts/9035483/events/3271930

We got a situation.
Thoughts on this?
I'm sure THall and Christ's Word are too busy stuffing 300 BLK into their ARs on their way to defend the citizens of Ferguson to respond.
Unless they're still holding the line at Bundy's ranch.
Anybody else near the conflict?

I've watched several videos. There seems to be a tendency to forget the fact that Michael Brown and his friend Dorian had just walked into a convenience market and taken what they wanted, strong arming the store clerk. That immediately, IMO, negates the witness report of Dorian and dismisses Michael Brown as being a peace loving individual. The video clearly shows both men in the convenience store...kinda hard to miss Dorian. A strong arm robbery is a robbery, plain and simple. I'd like to know why Dorian isn't being held.

I don't know what THall and CW are doing but I've been questioning their motives here for a while.

 

[Christ's Word]

One of the officers that we had dinner with last night told us that the Ferguson Chief used to be a St. Louis County Tac officer and was a very good professional policeman. Here is what a friend of mine posted who knows Darren Wilson (shooter) personally:



"Darren is a good man and he shot and killed Michael in self defense. After he told the young adults to get out of the street, they refused and there was a heated verbal exchange, Darren rolled ahead and pulled over and watched the two. He noticed they fit the description of two people involved in a strong armed robbery nearby that had just been called in and also looked like they may have had the stolen merchandise on them. He reversed his vehicle back to where they where to question them. When he tried to get out of his car, Michael slammed the car door back closed with his body. Upon attempting to exit his vehicle, Darren was bum rushed by Michael Brown, shoved back into the front seat of his car, punched in his face a few times and then had to fight Michael over posession of his gun. The gun was literally turned against Darren's body for a moment. During the struggle, his gun went off and then the 280 pound, 6'3" "child" took off with his friend. When the officer got out of his car and drew his gun and yelled freeze you're under arrest, Michael turned, taunting him, yelling from about 35 feet away, "what, you gonna shoot me?" and then abruptly charged the officer again. The officer unloaded on the huge YOUNG adult as he continued storming towards him until finally, he was able to stop him by shooting him in the head right when he was almost to him and his weapon. Imagine the adrenaline pumping after almost being shot in his police car and then this same large guy is sprinting at you. He thought that Michael must have been on something the way he just kept coming despite being shot many times. Hopefully, toxicology will confirm this suspicion. These are the facts-but if nothing else I beg that you at least consider these as the other side of the story. I've heard several witnesses that must keep quiet in case they are needed in court have confirmed this story and had the SAME version of events. All other "witnesses" stories have all been inconsistent with one another, some claiming he was down on his knees, others that he was running away. The truth above is the only consistent story there has been because of course, there can be only one version of the truth. I believe in my heart for it to be factually true because I know someone very well who was there. Please spread the truth. I am begging you to at least put this out as a possibility since we have ONLY heard the other's side. It explains all of the questions and it's what I was told on Sunday morning, before everyone was silenced. Please pray for Darren who was only doing his job and trying to stay alive. Or at least, please consider this as a possibility...even just a theory. I'm telling you, eventually it will all come out. This is the truth. Spread it!"


We will know if this story is true based on the entrance wounds in Michael Brown's body, and the powder burns on his clothes and skin. The physical evidence will tell us who is really telling the truth, and the truth will come out.

 

[IMJerusha]

Idiots like you, who are detached from reality, really need help. Many people have friends who are policeman, you should try it some time. Police are people too.

As far as their bias, it is definitely there. Both officers we had dinner with agreed, that when the boy resisted, it now became about street cred. If the officer had backed off, he would have been run out of town by the thugs. My husband offered an alternative view after asking the question, "Really, millions of dollars of damage, officers hurt, two dead civilians, all over a box of cigars and 'street cred'? All agreed that shooting a fleeing unarmed kid in the back will get this officer fried by a jury.

We all agreed that the Ferguson officer made a number of poor choices, the least of which was not waiting for back up to effect and arrest. We all wondered why a taser was not used, as Ferguson equips all the officers with that choice.

The Sergeant, with over 20 years in, said he thinks the "riot control tactics" stem from being stuck in a 1950's police culture. He said putting 150 guys in a line at an intersection with 4 armored vehicles just makes his guys a target. He would prefer dressing his minority officers with street thug clothing and post them as observers, and then divide the 150 up into platoon sized elements as rapid reaction teams to deal with looters and other trouble makers. My husband concurred that his suggestion would be a major tactical improvement. The other younger officer disagreed, and said the situation is too "primal". He believed that the police needed a huge show of force because the trouble making element needs to know who the biggest toughest bully on the block is. So yes the police have their own bias, based on real world experience having to deal with real threats and survive on the streets where they are hated.

Now you're defending them? Oh brother!

 

[Sitamun]

I've watched several videos. There seems to be a tendency to forget the fact that Michael Brown and his friend Dorian had just walked into a convenience market and taken what they wanted, strong arming the store clerk. That immediately, IMO, negates the witness report of Dorian and dismisses Michael Brown as being a peace loving individual. The video clearly shows both men in the convenience store...kinda hard to miss Dorian. A strong arm robbery is a robbery, plain and simple. I'd like to know why Dorian isn't being held.

I don't know what THall and CW are doing but I've been questioning their motives here for a while.

Even IF he was responsible for the theft, the penalty for robbery is NOT death. The chief of police has stated that Dorian isn't a suspect in the robbery so isn't being charged or held. Just relating what I have read. If Dorian is no longer a suspect, doesn't that throw some doubt on Brown's involvement? They were together.

 

[Christ's Word]

The police chief himself stated that the officer DIDN'T KNOW that Brown was a possible suspect in the theft. The theft had NOTHING to do with the stop.

The Chief may or may not know what the officer was thinking or knew, and I promise you the officer is smart enough to not make an official statement, he would let his attorney do the talking.

 

[Sitamun]

The Chief may or may not know what the officer was thinking or knew, and I promise you the officer is smart enough to not make an official statement, he would let his attorney do the talking.

What is your point? I'm only relating offically released information and quotes. That is the chiefs statement. Do you think he is lying?

 

[IMJerusha]

Even IF he was responsible for the theft, the penalty for robbery is NOT death. The chief of police has stated that Dorian isn't a suspect in the robbery so isn't being charged or held. Just relating what I have read. If Dorian is no longer a suspect, doesn't that throw some doubt on Brown's involvement? They were together.

I'm not defending the actions of the officer. I'm not defending Michael Brown and his friend Dorian. I'm not letting media reports sway me one way or the other.

Have you seen the store video? It definitely looks like Dorian and Michael. I have no idea why the PC would temporarily clear Dorian unless he's trying to prevent more rioting. I don't even know if he actually said that. The media reports are coming off as two sided. There's a shock! I've never cared for media manipulation.

 

[99lamb]

Sitamun
Even IF he was responsible for the theft, the penalty for robbery is NOT death.

No one has made that claim.
But have you ever heard of a police officer stopping someone for a traffic infraction, and because the person being stopped was guilty of something, their behavior led the police to further investigate what was causing the person to act in a nervous or suspicious manner?

The chief of police has stated that Dorian isn't a suspect in the robbery so isn't being charged or held. Just relating what I have read. If Dorian is no longer a suspect, doesn't that throw some doubt on Brown's involvement? They were together.

What do you think the reaction of the law abiding citizens would be if the police did arrest Dorian, even if he was seen on camera robbing a store, the backlash would be out of proportion.