Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Only those in the Body of Christ were and are looking for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and those who received the Hebrew epistles were likewise waiting for that same imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus.
ECT Rightly Dividing MADs
- Thread starter Danoh
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Only those in the Body of Christ were and are looking for an imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus and those who received the Hebrew epistles were likewise waiting for that same imminent appearance of the Lord Jesus.
Right Divider
Body part
A logical fallacy....
Just because both expected an imminent return does NOT mean that they are the SAME.
The same body that can deal with both earth environment and heaven environment?
Or are you saying He switches bodies when He is in the heaven environment?
The body of Moses had a similar experience when his countenance changed appearance when he came down from the mountain to the Israelites in the wilderness. Ex 34:29-35
So those kinds of appearances are not limited to a "spiritual" body.
Also ask yourself ......
Were the disciples actually witnessing Jesus, Moses, and Elijah there with them physically; or was it a vision? (ie. Jesus was still standing there with them in His regular body, but the vision they saw was something else in addition to the reality.)
In other words: Were there two bodies of Jesus there at the time of the vision --- one, His regular body standing there with them, and the other a spiritual body in the vision?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
As I said, when He rose from the dead He only had one body but that body was adaptable to the environment where it is found. On earth it was adapted to being an earthly body but when in heaven it is adapted to a heavenly body.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So there are two different imminent appearances of the Lord remaining in the future?
I know of one and that will happen at the rapture.
Please give me the Scriptures which speak of a second one.
But you seem to be saying that He has a flesh and bone body for the earth environment, but then switches to another (as in a different body) non flesh and bone body for the heaven environment.
Am I understanding your stance correctly?
Or do you think as I do, that it is the same risen flesh and bone body no matter which environment He is in at the time?
In other words, I see no reason why His flesh and bone body cannot have a countenance change of appearance.
Especially when we already have the example of Moses' countenance change while in his same body.
Jerry has been shown this:
Ephesians 5:30 KJV For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
There can be no doubt whatsoever, that the Lord Jesus Christ now, in this dispensation, now, is in the same "flesh and bones" spiritual body, the same resurrected, glorified body, that came out of the tomb.
And by me including "There can be no doubt whatsoever," that ends the discussion, per Jerry, who is always right.
That's what I like to call a clincher.
Hi Jerry and here is a verse that convinces me in Luke 24:51 !!
It is a Greek verb CARRIED UP / ANAPHEMI which is in the Greek IMPERFECT TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and is a FACT !!
So , verse 51 says that as Jesus was carried up in a Flesh and BONE BODY He will return the same way as He ASCENDED UP !!
dan p
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
-DELETED-
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The supernatural body will change from an earthly, natural body to a heavenly, spiritual body.
Not two different bodies but the same supernatural body which is adaptable.
Those in the Body will have bodies just like the Lord's heavenly body. And Paul describes the body which those in the Body will wear as being different from the flesh and bone bodies which we now have:
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven" (2 Cor.5:1-2).
When Paul uses the words "made with hands" he is referring to our flesh and bones body. And when he speaks of a body which is in heaven he is clearly distinguishing the flesh and bone body from the spiritual body which Christians will put on at the rapture.
It makes no sense to say that those in the Body will have a flesh and bone body with just a change in its countenance.
Not two different bodies but the same supernatural body which is adaptable.
Those in the Body will have bodies just like the Lord's heavenly body. And Paul describes the body which those in the Body will wear as being different from the flesh and bone bodies which we now have:
"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven" (2 Cor.5:1-2).
When Paul uses the words "made with hands" he is referring to our flesh and bones body. And when he speaks of a body which is in heaven he is clearly distinguishing the flesh and bone body from the spiritual body which Christians will put on at the rapture.
It makes no sense to say that those in the Body will have a flesh and bone body with just a change in its countenance.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, and when He returns to the earth in His supernatural body that body will be adapted to the earthly environment.
Right Divider
Body part
I was NOT referring to two imminent returns, but to two different groups both expecting imminent returns.
Right Divider
Body part
That is a very strange belief.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since there is only one "imminent" appearance of the Lord and at that appearance the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord then those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting to be caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air. And that is exactly what John is speaking about here:
"Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 Jn.3:2-3).
John refers to the things which will happen at the Lord Jesus' "appearance" as a "hope." That is exactly what Paul speaks of here:
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).
When the Lord appears then the saints will put on glorious bodies just like the glorious body of the Lord Jesus and in the following verses Peter is speaking about that very thing:
"The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed...And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away" (1 Pet.5:1,4).
Jerry, two questions:
1. What was transpiring in the one year after Christ's ascension into Heaven?
2. How soon were His followers expecting Him to return?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
First of all, an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was not revealed until Paul. But later it was also taught in the Hebrew epistles. So they all knew that appearance could happen at any time.
As far as what was going on one year after the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven, I am not sure as to what event you are referring to.
But you did a nice job of ignoring all the verses which I quoted which demonstrates that those who received the Hebrew epistles were expecting to put on a glorious body just like the Lord's glorious body at His imminent appearance.
James 5 KJV
7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
Jerry: There can be no doubt whatsoever, we see that that James, which is obviously written to members of the boc,that an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was revealed to him, before Paul. Of course, since you are always right, you know when James was written=after Paul!!!
Revelation 1 KJV
3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22 KJV
10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Jerry: There can be no doubt whatsoever, we see that that Revelation, which is obviously written to members of the boc,that an imminent return of the Lord Jesus was revealed to John, before Paul. Of course, since you are always right, you know when Revelation was written=after Paul!!!
musterion
Well-known member
Yep, told him that nigh onto 2 weeks ago but he ignored it. It's like showing a chicken a card trick -- the point is completely ignored.
