Dan Emanuel
Active member
Type 1: Jesus Christ is God; I am a sinner
Type 2: Jesus Christ is not God; I am a sinner
Type 3: Jesus Christ is God; I am not a sinner
Type 4: Jesus Christ is not God; I am not a sinner
Daniel
1.1
remember
- Thread starter patrick jane
- Start date
- Status
Type 2: Jesus Christ is not God; I am a sinner
Type 3: Jesus Christ is God; I am not a sinner
Type 4: Jesus Christ is not God; I am not a sinner
Daniel
Mocking You
New member
No, Jesus IS God.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
1 Corinthians 10
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? 17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. 18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? 19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing? 20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. 21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils. 22 Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
Daniel
1.0
achduke
Active member
So you contend with scripture that he is not the Son of God?
Is he not a temple?
Is he not a head of the church?
Please tell us which you disagree with?
RevTestament
New member
Hey Patrick -
it is evident you are going through a mid-acts dispensational gospel "crisis" of withdrawal....
my friend do not be ashamed of realizing the incomplete truth of this theology.
I believe you are brave to stick out your head here and proclaim your change of heart since it is a prevalent doctrine on this site, and I pray for you as you continue to learn.
However, I am having difficulty understanding how you are saying you are "catholic" when you go on to state things like this which could be construed as a rejection of the doctrine of the trinity:
The gospel confirms that Jesus Christ is "God" as that term is used in the English Bible:
YHWH Elohim with the Father - Gen 3:22 YHWH Elohim said the man
has become as one of us[mim·men·nū]
Elohim - Heb 1:8 & Ps 45:7 "Thy throne O Elohim..."
YHWH - Isa 26:4 & 19
From before foundation of the world - Proverbs 8; John 17:5
our brother - Hebrews 2:11-12, 17-18; Psalm 22:18-25
"The Father is greater than I."
Son is the revelation of the Father to us - John 1:18, 5:19 & 16:25;
"Who hath seen me, hath seen the Father."
"Whatsoever the Father doeth the Son doeth likewise." "I am the way." Jn 14:6
Inheritor - now on right hand, but will sit in Father's stead & be called Father, Isaiah 9:6, "inheritor of my mountains" Isaiah 65:9; Heb 1:4
However, as you indicate at the same time He is NOT the Father:
but is the Son of El Elyon, the Most High El, servant - Isaiah 42:1, 6, 8; Luke 1:32
He is not El Elyon, the Most High El anywhere in scripture.
I see the problem understanding Him as being a refusal to see the changing nature of his status as/with God due to the insistence of theologians that God is "immutable." God is unchanging in His attributes of righteousness, etc, or He wouldn't be God. However, most everything about Jesus screams that his status changes. He inherited His name according to Hebrews. He inherits the government and the holy mountains of the Father according to Isaiah, etc. When one recognizes this truth, the scripture becomes quite clear
I hope you do not feel you have blasphemed the Holy Spirit because of mid-acts dispensationalism. As far as I have known you, you have never denied Christ - even in the depths of your sin, even if you used the name of God in vain, you did not deny Christ nor blaspheme the Holy Spirit.
There is hope given to everyone in the name of Jesus Christ who told us that many would deny Him and be forgiven.
God rejoiced in the prodigal son who sunk into the pit of sin and filth, but who realized his folly, and returned to his Father.
I have been there too my friend. I believe Paul went there too, and yet Christ called him, and forgave him.
Just because Darby was wrong, doesn't mean that God doesn't teach as time passes. Whether one wants to call these dispensations or something else, doesn't really matter.
Isaiah 28:13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Be well, and don't be discouraged. Allow your understanding of Christ continue to grow in His word, and realize that we are all in the same boat of struggling to understand God...
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.
who did Jesus give authority to?
Dan Emanuel
Active member
I understood it to mean "born Catholic;" into a Catholic family; to Catholic parent's.
Daniel
1.0
RevTestament
New member
Nice try there Chrys, but Peter never indicated He had authority to forgive sin but taught everyone to come unto Christ as our mediator. There are no other mediators for sin - not Mary and not Peter. His keys gave him authority to lead the church - not to change the doctrines of Christ.
The Bishop of Rome never had that authority, and if he did, he lost it in his temporal power grab and failing to lead by example.
Dan Emanuel
Active member
Peter.
I compare Matthew 16:19 KJV with John 20:23 KJV. Peter has the key's, and all the Apostle's have the power to remit/retain sin's.
However, the legitimate/true successor's of the Apostle's (the bishop's), are in communion with the named successor of Peter (the papacy). Thats how we can know whose who.
Daniel
1.2
do you have reason to believe thee and thou are not the same person here?
Matthew 16:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
heir
TOL Subscriber
in chat, Patrick writes, "because i have no reason to be here Mike - no purpose". That's not true!
You abandoned the purpose given you in Christ Jesus before the world began:
2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
You abandoned the purpose given you in Christ Jesus before the world began:
2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
Dan Emanuel
Active member
I do not.
I offer up the alternative, that is sometime's suggested by non-Catholic's: All of the Apostle's were given the power to bind/loose/remit/retain, not only Peter.
My point is, how do you know where this power is today? You know by who (among bishop's) is in communion with the successor of Peter. So whether you believe (as we do) that to Peter alone was given the key's to the kingdom, or whether you believe it was to all the Apostle's together (as other non-Catholic's do); either way, you can know where this power is today, by determining who (among bishop's) is in communion with the successor of Peter.
Daniel
1.0
peter was the first pope
and
I have no reason to believe anyone but the pope has that power
heir
TOL Subscriber
Peter was never a pope. And it doesn't even matter. Paul is our pattern, not Peter 1 Timothy 1:16 KJV
Mocking You
New member
Jesus is not a temple. When we look at Jesus we see God, not God "who dwells in him".
Jesus IS God, not a vessel where God resides.
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” John 8:58
heir
TOL Subscriber
Ephesians 1:21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
achduke
Active member
heir
TOL Subscriber
What is the gospel of your salvation? Without having trusted the Lord believing it, you are outside of the Body of Christ/outside the faith.
- Status