RELIGION: Man's spiritual preoccupation with himself, who is a sinner.

[Nameless.In.Grace]

The Holy Spirit does not contradict what Jesus said. Since you don't believe Jesus when He said APART from Him, man can do NOTHING, whose spirit is in you?

But I believe in what Jesus said, ergo, the HS is in me. Simple, isn't it, Robert?

You are in denial of the Gospel and justification by faith, which is the foundation of the church.

This is another example of two Grace based friends expressing the same idea in different ways.

You both believe in the absolute Grace of Jesus.

You both theologically explain it differently.


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[Ben Masada]

Prizebeatz1

Outside of man's relationship to God and his Son Jesus Christ he is worthless.

Our self worth comes from who we are related to.

Those that have trusted Christ as their savior are now Son's of God, Romans 8:14.

Before that they are nothing more than fuel for the fire.

I rather think that outside the Law, a man becomes worthless. Really an outlaw; actually a criminal.

 

[Robert Pate]

I rather think that outside the Law, a man becomes worthless. Really an outlaw; actually a criminal.

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.

Maybe that's your problem.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

RELIGION: Man's spiritual preoccupation with himself, who is a sinner.

You apparently don't know much about babies or little children.

They are the most narcisstic little demons on the face of the earth. I know because I have raised three of them. When they become teenagers some of them go completely insane. Please don't try to convince me that these children are born with the Holy Spirit, what they are born with is the spirit of the devil himself.

Your whole doctrine is based upon the false premise that we are born with a oneness with God, which is totally false.

it appears to me that you have never made a profession of faith in Christ.

Dude, I was a Catholic for 35 years. The source of our innocence is the soul and it is infinite and eternal. Nothing is going to change that. A newborn baby has not done anything wrong. Maybe when they get older they do but that innocence can never be tainted. It is born pure. When we get older we lose touch with this part of ourselves. There is no amount of anything that can even put a particle of dust on the divinity of the soul.

The belief that we are sinful is nothing but our own lack of knowledge about this crucial part of us. We feel disconnected and alienated from the source of our goodness and value. This is a real painful and tragic loss but we are almost never aware that it is a problem partly because we are preoccupied with obliterating it out of our awareness. We can feel the energy behind the need to hold onto what we think will fix it and make the pain go away. The personality is designed to do just that. It is what prevents us from experiencing what is infinite and eternal. Notice how naturally easy it was to be near the soul when we were children but once we reached adulthood it's like we forgot. What changed?


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

Dude, I was a Catholic for 35 years. The source of our innocence is the soul and it is infinite and eternal. Nothing is going to change that. A newborn baby has not done anything wrong. Maybe when they get older they do but that innocence can never be tainted. It is born pure. When we get older we lose touch with this part of ourselves. There is no amount of anything that can even put a particle of dust on the divinity of the soul.

The belief that we are sinful is nothing but our own lack of knowledge about this crucial part of us. We feel disconnected and alienated from the source of our goodness and value. This is a real painful and tragic loss but we are almost never aware that it is a problem partly because we are preoccupied with obliterating it out of our awareness. We can feel the energy behind the need to hold onto what we think will fix it and make the pain go away. The personality is designed to do just that. It is what prevents us from experiencing what is infinite and eternal. Notice how naturally easy it was to be near the soul when we were children but once we reached adulthood it's like we forgot. What changed?


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Brother Beatz,

I understand the origin of our soul, but God alone is without the propensity to sin.

Is not the origin of our soul the only true Perfection?


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[Prizebeatz1]

RELIGION: Man's spiritual preoccupation with himself, who is a sinner.

Brother Beatz,

I understand the origin of our soul, but God alone is without the propensity to sin.

Is not the origin of our soul the only true Perfection?


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Yes, the moral of the story is we are one with God because of the soul. But have we not recognized in that identifying with our sinfulness we are biting of the forbidden fruit of judgment? Is that not the downfall of mankind? It seems Adam and Eve bit the fruit once and passed it down through the generations and here we are still biting. Without knowledge of the soul we will just continue to define ourselves by our sinfulness and reman stuck with it, unaware of the infinite eternal part of us which is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Without the soul we feel worthless. Everything humanity has been trying to do is an attempt to make up for this conviction of worthlessness.

Part of the personality's function is to protect us from this worthless feeling. Notice how badly it is avoiding the emptiness it feels inside itself. It grasps for anything. It would rather have something than nothing. Therein lies the problem. We judge this "nothing" this "emptiness" as bad because again we can't quit biting the forbidden fruit. We don't understand that wide expanse of space, nothingness, emptiness and stillness is part of us. It is the soul which is one with God but here we are trying to avoid it at all possible costs. Every time we confess this traditional Jesus is another time we deny the reality of what the story of Jesus points to. Just like Jesus told Peter he would deny him 3 times before the rooster crowed we will deny the soul many many times because we don't know any better. But the Lord in his everlasting patience and kindness and grace forgives us for we know not what we do.


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[Nameless.In.Grace]

RELIGION: Man's spiritual preoccupation with himself, who is a sinner.

Have we not recognized in that identifying with our sinfulness we are biting of the forbidden fruit of judgment? Is that not the downfall of mankind? It seems Adam and Eve but the fruit once and passed it down through the generations and here we are still biting. Without knowledge of the soul we will just continue to define ourselves by our sinfulness and reman stuck with it, unaware of the infinite eternal part of us which is the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world. Without the soul we feel worthless.

Part of the personality's function is to protect us from this worthless feeling. Notice how badly it is avoiding the emptiness it feels inside itself. It grasps for anything. It would rather have something than nothing. Therein lies the problem. We judge this "nothing" this "emptiness" as bad because again we can't quit biting the forbidden fruit. We don't understand that wide expanse of space, nothing, emptiness and stillness is part of us. It is the soul which is one with God but here we are trying to avoid it at all possible costs. Every time we confess this traditional Jesus is another time we deny the reality of what the story of Jesus points to. Just like Jesus told Peter he would deny him 3 times before the rooster crowed we will deny the soul many many times because we don't know any better. But the Lord in his everlasting patience and kindness and grace forgives us for we know not what we do.


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Aha,

Brother Beatz,

You are referring to the Love of God lifting us with FULL acceptance of our person as we are.

Humanity does indeed bite the fruit of judgment!

I understand you clearly.

Only the Creator that would rather suffer and die in shame to PROVE His Love for us is fully licensed to be trusted to Love us exactly as we are. [emoji6]

Funny how so many fight against this simple truth, isn't it?

If God indeed manifested in flesh and died for us in that flesh to show us the true nature of His Love, you would think people would put the pieces together.

People be like;

[emoji846]


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[Ben Masada]

Paul said that the law made him sin, Romans 7:7-12.

Maybe that's your problem.

You're wrong! The Law rather shows what a sin is and when you have committed it. Paul was addicted to a sinful condition he grew up with and could not get rid of it. He rather gave way to his evil inclination as a Hellenist and struggled for the rest of his life trying to depress his sinful feelings. Since there was nothing he could do, he struck a deal with him and himself so to speak to uphold the Law whereas in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25)

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Well, that's okay, you and others claim Jesus did it all for us so we can just sit and sip our Long Island Iced Tea and listen to a Bob Seger CD. Yeah, I like that old time rock and roll.

Thanks a lot!

Now I want a long island ice tea and have Against the Wind stuck in my head...

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[jamie]

You are referring to the Love of God lifting us with FULL acceptance of our person as we are.

Pablum. Jesus did not accept Saul of Tarsus as he was but asked Saul to make a change.

He did.

 

[Nameless.In.Grace]

Pablum. Jesus did not accept Saul of Tarsus as he was but asked Saul to make a change.

He did.

I was ribbing you. [emoji846][emoji3]. Good answer. But note that He clocked Saul over the head with His voice and blindness.


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[Robert Pate]

You're wrong! The Law rather shows what a sin is and when you have committed it. Paul was addicted to a sinful condition he grew up with and could not get rid of it. He rather gave way to his evil inclination as a Hellenist and struggled for the rest of his life trying to depress his sinful feelings. Since there was nothing he could do, he struck a deal with him and himself so to speak to uphold the Law whereas in his mind only while serving sin in his flesh. (Romans 7:25)

The law does not bring out the best in people, it brings out the worse.

After God gave the law to Moses did it make your Jewish brothers better?

Of course not. They were such a bunch of rebels that God made them wander in the desert for 40 years. it was a whole new generation of Jews that entered the promise land.

 

[Ben Masada]

The law does not bring out the best in people, it brings out the worse.

After God gave the law to Moses did it make your Jewish brothers better?

Of course not. They were such a bunch of rebels that God made them wander in the desert for 40 years. it was a whole new generation of Jews that entered the promise land.

The Law always brings the best in people, which is freedom. When we obey the Law, we can enjoy the best in us which is freedom. When we transgress the Law we are at our worse as we can no longer enjoy freedom. What you say above in this post of yours, you can't prove any thing. What I am telling you in my reply, we can see the evidence every day with the application of justice in the courts of law.

Yes, when God gave His Law to us through Moses it did make my People not only better but the best among the nations of the world. Hence, the Lord chose us to be His People forever, as long as we use of our Freewill to being Law abide citizens of God's Kingdom. (Exodus 19:5,6)

 

[Robert Pate]

The Law always brings the best in people, which is freedom. When we obey the Law, we can enjoy the best in us which is freedom. When we transgress the Law we are at our worse as we can no longer enjoy freedom. What you say above in this post of yours, you can't prove any thing. What I am telling you in my reply, we can see the evidence every day with the application of justice in the courts of law.

Yes, when God gave His Law to us through Moses it did make my People not only better but the best among the nations of the world. Hence, the Lord chose us to be His People forever, as long as we use of our Freewill to being Law abide citizens of God's Kingdom. (Exodus 19:5,6)

You must have a different Bible than what I have.

The law made nothing better. The only good thing about the law is that it reveals the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man. It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

This is why God brought about a New Covenant based upon better promises, Hebrews 8:6-13.

Your religion is decaying and passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

 

[fishrovmen]

Too bad Pateism doesn"t pass away.

 

[chrysostom]

Too bad Pateism doesn"t pass away.

it will with pate

 

[daqq]

The law does not bring out the best in people, it brings out the worse.

After God gave the law to Moses did it make your Jewish brothers better?

Of course not. They were such a bunch of rebels that God made them wander in the desert for 40 years. it was a whole new generation of Jews that entered the promise land.

Have you learned nothing from Paul? The "old man" always dies off in the desert.

Too bad Pateism doesn"t pass away.

it will with pate

When his desert years are up so is his dispensation; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The new Pate will meet Sar Tsaba YHWH in the Land, (if he overcomes in his appointed time). :chuckle:

 

[Ben Masada]

You must have a different Bible than what I have.

The law made nothing better. The only good thing about the law is that it reveals the righteousness of God and the sinfulness of man. It is our schoolmaster that brings us to Christ.

This is why God brought about a New Covenant based upon better promises, Hebrews 8:6-13.

Your religion is decaying and passing away, Hebrews 8:13.

Robert, not that I wish because the tragedy would follow the experience but, if you tested your views of the Law by committing a crime worth 10 years or more in jail, perhaps you would change your mind about what I mean by the consequences that come by transgressing the Law. You would rest your sword against the Law for the rest of your life. If not by any other reason, the fact that you would not have freedom to enjoy.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, not that I wish because the tragedy would follow the experience but, if you tested your views of the Law by committing a crime worth 10 years or more in jail, perhaps you would change your mind about what I mean by the consequences that come by transgressing the Law. You would rest your sword against the Law for the rest of your life. If not by any other reason, the fact that you would not have freedom to enjoy.

True Son's of God don't need law. They know what pleases their father and act accordingly.

If you need to be told what to do then you are one of these, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

 

[Ben Masada]

True Son's of God don't need law. They know what pleases their father and act accordingly.

If you need to be told what to do then you are one of these, 1 Timothy 1:9, 10.

Yes, I know but, there is nothing to please God more than obedience to His Law. It seems to me, you have never read chapter 119 in the book of Psalms have you? Why don't you take a precious time to read it and you will understand what I mean. Please, do it and set aside any thing you do not understand and we will discuss it.

If you tried to understand what it takes to be one of those whom the Lord anointed as His precious sons, you would love the Law. For now, read Exodus 4:22,23. "Israel is My Son; let My Son go that He may serve Me."