Reconciled to God while enemies !

[beloved57]

More on reconciliation !

More on reconciliation !

One who has been legally reconciled to God by the Blood of Christ or to say by His Death Rom 5:10, even while being enemies and unbelievers, this reconciliation is also their Justification before God, simply because reconciliation legally denotes the non imputation of their sins unto them 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So , legal reconciliation and non imputation of sin go hand and hand, and that can be the case only if God does not reckon them to be lawbreakers, because of the Blood of Christ shed for them alone, for Christ's sake alone, God hath accepted their persons as Righteous, not for anything in them by Nature, nor wrought in them by New Birth or the Spirit, but while they are being enemies by nature, and not for anything done by them , but for Christ's Sake alone ! It is not because of any Gospel Obedience such as repenting and believing, but because also of imputing the Righteousness and Obedience of Christ unto them, and this also while they themselves are being enemies by nature as well as being ignorant of their own Justification, and Reconciliation to God, solely by the Death of Christ !

 

[ttruscott]

My problem with Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

is that it implies I was alive and an enemy when Christ died.

Even clearer here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

Peace, Ted

 

[beloved57]

tt scot

Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

This is not about me personally, just read the thread, for within it I have explained the Truth of reconciliation and what I believe about it ! And Rom 5:10, is pretty plain !

 

[beloved57]

Reconciled by His Death !

Reconciled by His Death !

Everyone the Lord Jesus Christ died for was first and foremost or primarily reconciled to God objectively / legally . This did also occur when they themselves were sinners, ungodly, and without strength Rom 5:6-8

6 For when we [The Elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we[God's Elect Rom 8:33-34] were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

For those scriptures have pointed out Christ's Death for those He died on the behalf of Rom 5:8 !

And so while or when ungodly sinners, Christ hath died for them or us, and by that Death, He did reconcile them unto God as plainly stated in Rom 5:10, now the word reconciled is the aorist passive indicative of katallassó which means legal and objective reconciliation is a finished work in the behalf of [benefit of] of those Christ did die for, while they are being in a ungodly and sinful condition Rom 5:6-8; and hath been reconciled [legally] by His Death alone, and so are they by the same death or blood Justified legally Rom 5:9. This is the word dikaioo and its an aorist passive participle denoting Just as when the elect were being enemies and ungodly sinners, Christ died for them, and by that death or blood passively reconciled them to God, so likewise, by that same death and blood referred to in Rom 5:9, passively and legally Justified them [made righteous] while being ungodly Rom 4:5.

The sinful condition of the Elect, those Christ died for, does not cancel out the legal benefits, the objective blessings of the blood of Christ, and so for this cause it is gross error to teach that the unbelieving elect vessels of mercy are ever in a legal state of condemnation by God as those who who believe not are in here Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

To say that is false teaching !

 

[beloved57]

Preaching Reconciliation !

Preaching Reconciliation !

Reconciliation in both Rom 5:10 ; 2 Cor 5:18-19 is objective or legal , it primarily consists of two things, the non imputation, and by the death of Christ, the satisfaction of God's Law, which also is the propitiation Heb 2:17

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people

Reconciliation here is the greek word hilaskomai and means:

to be propitious, make propitiation for

I have mercy on, show favor to, (b) trans. with object of sins: I forgive, pardon.

This reconciliation is whereby God through Christ's Blood or Death hath reconciled sinful men [ the elect or the people] unto Himself ! Now because of Christ's Blood, God's anger and wrath has been laid aside and the sinner for whom He died [sinfulness and all] has God received into His Favor, for the word reconciled means:

to receive one into favour

Therefore, all for whom Christ died, regardless of their spiritual condition by nature, God accepts them and looks at them with favor and mercy, and frees them from any condemnation and or wrath !

 

[beloved57]

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Preaching Reconciliation ! cont

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God,while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

 

[beloved57]

Something to know about legal and objective reconciliation of the Elect, and that is this, that all the Elect while being enemies to Christ and God, are nevertheless legally still reconciled, received into God's Favor up until they are born again by the Spirit, or saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10b. This means, but I do not teach it from scripture, but it does mean if an elect person were to die before new birth, that they would still be saved from the penalty of their sins, by the blood of Christ, that they would die objectively and legally reconciled into God's Favor by Christ's Death alone ! All of the sin and enmity the Elect by Nature have against God,while they are yet unconverted , and alienated from the life of God, and yes unbelievers, all that has been satisfied for by the blood of Christ ! In fact legal and objective reconciliation by Christ's Death Alone is that Propitiation John writes of in 1 Jn 2:2 !

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Propitiation:

akin to hileos ("merciful, propitious"), signifies "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted."

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 is a world that has all of its sins remitted or covered. Like David said about the blessed Man Ps 32:1

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven or remitted, whose sin is covered.

Thats the blessing of Legal Reconciliation/ Propitiation !

The whole world of 1 Jn 2:2 that Christ is the propitiation in behalf of ,is a Justified World, because God has been propitiated for it, in the same manner that God had been propitiated towards the Publican in the story of Christ Lk 18:13-14

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

That word merciful is the greek word hilaskomai and means:


to render one's self, to appease, conciliate to one's self

a) to become propitious, be placated or appeased

b) to be propitious, be gracious, be merciful

2) to expiate, make propitiation for

The noun form of the same word is found in 1 Jn 2:2

hilasmos:

an appeasing, propitiating

2) the means of appeasing, a propitiation

Now Jesus enlightens here, that a sinner for whom God is propitiated for is a Justified person before God:

"I tell you, this man went down to his house justified "

The word Justified is the greek word:dikaioō:


to render righteous or such he ought to be

2) to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered

3) to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

So those who appeal ignorantly to 1 Jn 2:2 to prove that Christ died for the Whole World without exception, you are teaching falsely universalism, and that the whole World without exception has been declared Righteous before God !

 

[God's Truth]

My problem with Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

is that it implies I was alive and an enemy when Christ died.

Even clearer here:
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Were you a sinner, an enemy of GOD, when Christ died?

Peace, Ted

You proved to Beloved 57 that his doctrines are false, for he thinks he was always saved, even before he ever heard of Jesus. However, the scripture you gave explains that we are enemies of God until we come to Jesus in faith.

 

[beloved57]

Reconciliation = Justification !

Many who are ignorant of the blessed effects of the death of Christ, by not realizing, and rejecting the Truth that reconciliation to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10 is the same exact thing "as now being Justified by His Blood" Rom 5:9 !

 

[God's Truth]

Reconciliation = Justification !

Many who are ignorant of the blessed effects of the death of Christ, by not realizing, and rejecting the Truth that reconciliation to God by the Death of His Son Rom 5:10 is the same exact thing "as now being Justified by His Blood" Rom 5:9 !

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

We are not saved until we believe and have faith!

 

[beloved57]

More Truth on 2 Cor 5:19

More Truth on 2 Cor 5:19

Many false teachers, those who teach that Christ died for all without exception, but only some of them shall be saved and those who teach that Christ died for all and all without exception shall be saved with none lost, they both teach that the World here in 2 Cor 5:19 means all mankind without exception ! However the rest of the words in the verse 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Proves them to be liars, and that world here is restricted first by the words " theirs" and "them" which refer to God's Chosen or Called as Per 1 Cor 1:2

2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

1 Cor 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Cor 1:27-28

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

also the fact that these in 2 Cor 5:19 World had not their sins laid to their charge or they were not by God counted against them, reason being they were charged against Christ, so that He would die for them and satisfy their sin debt against God's Law and Justice, it was paid in full, for non imputation of sin is an key component of the Reconciliation of the World in 2 Cor 5:19, and all men without exception cannot be said not to have their sins counting against them since they are said to be condemned already Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And some men are said to be abiding under God's legal and Judicial Wrath Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

The word abideth is a present indicative active, meaning they are in a state of God's Wrath or Vengeance !

However this cannot be True of any of that World of 2 Cor 5:19 because they are in a state of favor with God !

Also notice about those in Jn 3:36 who are under God's Wrath, there is a promise annexed to them, which is that they shall not see Life !

But those Reconciled to God by Christ's Death while they are enemies and unbelievers, being reconciled, the promise to them is that they shall be saved by Christ's Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This destroys arminianism as well as universalism with one stroke of the pen !

 

[beloved57]

through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:2.

And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

We are not saved until we believe and have faith!

You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

 

[beloved57]

More on Reconciliation explained !

More on Reconciliation explained !

As in Justification, there is a difference between Objective/Legal Reconciliation and Subjective/ Experiential Reconciliation.

These must be kept distinct in that there is a big difference in what the Lord Jesus Christ did for His Sheep when He died on the Cross and what shall take place in them because of it; For the Apostles Doctrine taught both of objective and subjective Reconciliation. Now to understand the difference, Paul is teaching objective Reconciliation / Justification in Two places we shall observe #1 in Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Also 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

This Reconciliation [Legal and Objective] began in the Eternal Counsels of the Eternal Covenant, when it was agreed upon between the Father and the Son, the Surety of the People of the Elect or Sheep, that instead of trespasses that the Sheep will commit being charged or imputed to them, that they would instead be charged to their Shepherd, the Son, hence they were reconciled by the mere fact of Non Imputation of Trespasses of which Paul teaches in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So Non Imputation equals Reconciliation, this is Objectively / Legally ! This Legal act of God had nothing to do with the actions of the sinners themselves, but only with the Divine Purpose to not to impute the Sins of the Sheep unto them but instead unto Christ their Shepherd ! So Christ is said to be slain from the foundation of the World for the sins imputed Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Secondly, Objective Reconciliation was accomplished,finished,fulfilled in time by Christ's Death and that alone Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

This Reconciliation also is not based upon anything the sinner did, but solely " By the Death of God's Son " ! So what Paul has taught is that Reconciliation/ Justification began with the Offended Justice of God being satisfied for those Christ died for, and not with the offenders themselves whom Christ died for ! They themselves while this accomplished Reconciliation has taken place, are yet being enemies !

 

[beloved57]

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont

Now this legal and objective Reconciliation does presuppose an alienation of God to man because of their sins as here Isa 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Yet this alienation hath been removed God ward by the Propitiation sacrifice of Christ 1 Jn 4:10

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Or to say by His Blood, consequently enabling God to receive them into His Favor, this Favor of Reconciliation is a Reality to God, accomplished solely by the Blood of Christ, even while the subjects themselves are not yet reconciled to Him, but they are being in a state of enmity and enemies by nature. The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō
and means:

to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour

God can Look at unreconciled sinners and receive them into His Favor as He does because of what the Death of Christ did against all their iniquities legally before His Law and Justice ! It took them all away ! But however, those have a Promise unto them, They all shall be saved by His [Christ's Life] See Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now why is that ? Because they still need to be saved from being in themselves enemies to God, for God is reconciled to them, before they are reconciled to God, because their nature hates God and is at enmity with Him, so They shall be saved from that disposition !

 

[beloved57]

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont 3

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont 3

They shall be saved by Christ's Life which means, because of the accomplishment of objective reconciliation, they shall be saved out of being enemies, into subjective reconciliation by the Life of Christ, which life is communicated to them by New Birth by the Spirit, thats why for all whom He died and objectively reconciled, by His Mediation, a Life Giving Spirit He became 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

As Risen Saviour and Head, He must communicate Life to His Body of which He is the Saviour of Eph 5:23

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the Saviour of the body.

The Spirit is given to all for whom He died through Him, which is Paul's meaning here Titus 3:5-6

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Please notice that the renewing Work of the Spirit, that saved them, was poured out or shed forth on them Through Jesus Christ our Saviour, hence, they were saved by His Life !

So in essence both objective and subjective Reconciliation of the sinner are of God 2 Cor 5:18

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Objectively by the Death of Christ, and Subjectively by the communicated Life of Christ by the Spirit in New Birth ! Any not hearing and receiving this Gospel Witness of reconciliation are in darkness even now and are rejecting the Truth !

 

[IMJerusha]

I'm just trying to find the word "impute" anywhere in the Scriptures! (sorry, couldn't resist).

If I'm understanding the gist of this thread, I think of where John dedicated his writing of the revelation of Yeshua "to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father -- to him be glory and power for ever and ever!" This same revelation clearly states that overcoming the evil of the end times and the beast "calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus." Does Yeshua's own revelation to John contradict His own sacrifice? No, of course not, yet there it is plain as the nose on one's face, a twofold requirement for reconciliation and the ability to overcome. The freedom we have in His blood does not negate the necessity for obedience and faithfulness.

 

[IMJerusha]

You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

Can Yeshua teach against Himself? Luke 24:45-47
Repentance is a work. Forgiveness is a work. Works such as love and repentance, obedience and forgiveness are evidence of Ruach HaKodesh in our lives, the lack of which results in our being lopped off from the vine and cast into fire (Matthew 7:19). By these works, fruit of the Spirit, are we recognized and such is not antiChrist. Yeshua said, "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather" (a work) "with me scatters. And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit."
Again, in John 15:1-10, Yeshua Himself places a caviat on our salvation. "If" we remain in Him. "If" we bear fruit. "If" we are obedient. If, If, If! I can not ignore Yeshua's "If's".

 

[beloved57]

im

If I'm understanding the gist of this thread

Please rehearse the points I have made in posts 33-35 to see if you understand where I am coming from !

 

[beloved57]

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont 4

More on Reconciliation explained ! cont 4

Now scripture that teach Subjective Reconciliation by Christ's Death Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Now notice here how Paul is attributing Subjective Reconciliation out of being enemies or a state of enmity, to Christ's Death in Vs 22, because he understands that, whet he called saved by His Life in Rom 5:10b is but the fruit of Christ's Death, whereby they were reconciled objectively, even while being enemies in their minds and doing hostile works, but because of the communication of His Life, Christ's Death is said to even reconcile them Subjectively out of being alienated and enemies, so again Col 1:22-23 teaches Subjective Reconciliation !

 

[God's Truth]

You reject the Truth and teach salvation by works, an antichrist teaching !

Only Satan would like what you teach and say to me. Who else is behind telling people to obey Jesus is wrong and accursed!!!!


The works no one has to do for a relationship anymore is circumcision, various external washings, various offerings, and the observance of special days! We still have to believe and obey Jesus.