Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

________________

You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Amen!


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
1 john 2:2? john 3:16?

gen 1:1 - rev 22:21

im helping :3

"All mankind", not the "world" or "Christians" or "creation" . . but, All "mankind".

In response, to assist Nonnon.

Show one verse where it is even hinted that: God loves all mankind? You said He did and have based you understanding on that.. Now where do you stand?

Please don't change the subject, per usual when you have no answer.


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 

Cross Reference

New member
On the issue of God's love, you now are in direct agreement with AMR.

Our debate is with AMR and others with Calvinsitic teaching in there heart.

Your common ground with AMR on this matter helps his stance.

I will not chase my tail.


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary

I have asked my question based upon what you declared. Not AMR or anyone else. YOU. It was a serious declaration that demanded a serious understanding in reply. I believe you wrongly declared something you assumed was correct, when you weren't correct. That's all.

OMT: I am not in agreement with AMR re God's LOVE and apparently now, not with you either.
 
Last edited:

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
Rebuttal of the dreadful doctrine of reprobation

I have asked my question based upon what you declared. Not AMR or anyone else. YOU. It was a serious declaration that demanded a serious understanding in reply. I believe you wrongly declared something you assumed was correct, when you weren't correct. That's all.

OMT: I am not in agreement with AMR re God's LOVE and apparently now, not you either.

I believe God Loves ALL the children of the wife of Adam equally, and of course, Adam and Eve equally too.


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 

Sonnet

New member
God's love

God's love

Matthew 5:43-48
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

John 10:30-30 (Jesus persists even with those that try to kill him - enjoining them to believe):

I and the Father are one.”

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

Luke 15:1-8
Now the tax collectors and sinners were all gathering around to hear Jesus. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law muttered, “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.”

Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbour together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.
 

Sonnet

New member
It might help to define that which is knowable before applying "all knowing" to things knowable and unknowable. For example, if God truly gives a type of creature free will, and the path taken is truly at the whim of the creation, can the action be known before the creature is brought into existence? I would consider that case "not knowable" by definition. It would differ from the roll of a fair die because the bounce and angles could be calculated.

One more question to consider, can God choose not to know something that would be otherwise knowable? Jesus said that the specific time of his coming was not known to him, only by his Father in heaven.

Mark 13:32 KJV
(32) But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


If we assume that Jesus was God and that God knows all things knowable, then from that passage it would seem that either Jesus chose not to know something that would be otherwise knowable, or in his own way is saying that the day and hour of his return was at that time not yet determined (thus it was "not knowable.")


[You can go in radio silence mode for me too if I'm interfering.]

God's knowledge of conterfactuals - 1 Samuel 23:7-13:

Saul was told that David had gone to Keilah, and he said, “God has delivered him into my hands, for David has imprisoned himself by entering a town with gates and bars.” And Saul called up all his forces for battle, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men.

When David learned that Saul was plotting against him, he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod.” David said, “Lord, God of Israel, your servant has heard definitely that Saul plans to come to Keilah and destroy the town on account of me. Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me to him? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? Lord, God of Israel, tell your servant.”

And the Lord said, “He will.”

Again David asked, “Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?”

And the Lord said, “They will.”

So David and his men, about six hundred in number, left Keilah and kept moving from place to place. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he did not go there.
 

Rosenritter

New member
A decree CANNOT be lifted not even by the King, the one whose decree it is. Therefore, . . . No remedy and no one higher to appeal to. Now do a re-read.

Where is that written? The decree of Nebuchadnezzar was reversed.

Daniel 2:13-15 KJV
(13) And the decree went forth that the wise men should be slain; and they sought Daniel and his fellows to be slain.
(14) Then Daniel answered with counsel and wisdom to Arioch the captain of the king's guard, which was gone forth to slay the wise men of Babylon:
(15) He answered and said to Arioch the king's captain, Why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel.

I grant that under the laws of the Medes and Persians a decree cannot be reversed (Daniel 6:15) but God isn't subject to the laws of the Medes and Persians. Why were you making that assumption? God can reverse his own decree if he chooses. He has done so before.

Jonah 3:4,5,10 KJV
(4) And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
(5) So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
(10) And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


I think you are forgetting the gospel of Jesus Christ. We were all decreed to die from the day of Adam's transgression. Mercy and salvation is the reversal of that decree. It's right there in the gospel of John, 3rd chapter, skipping ahead to verses 17 and 18.

John 3:17-18 KJV
(17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We were already decreed dead. That decree can be reversed. See Acts 16:30-31, "What must I do to be saved?"

They as with Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV ???????, where both examples are about those who were knowledgeable and more than knowledgeable about God. So this is NOT about unbelievers but about believers who NO LONGER WANTED GOD IN THEIR MIND, WILL, EMOTIONS, LIFE OR ANOTHER PART OF THEIR EXISTENCE, DO YOU NOW UNDERSTAND???

No, do not understand. The previous passage was not in the context of having tasted of the fruits of the Holy Ghost and having turned away. But let's focus on the concept of the aforementioned decree. Why did you have the impression that a decree cannot be reversed?
 

Rosenritter

New member
"All mankind", not the "world" or "Christians" or "creation" . . but, All "mankind".

John 3:16, "The world" includes "all mankind."
John 7:37, "Any man" includes "all mankind."
John 12:32, "All men" includes "all mankind."
Acts 17:30, "All men" includes "all mankind."
1 Timothy 2:4, "All men" includes "all mankind."
2 Peter 3:8, "Any" and "all" includes "all mankind."

I don't understand why someone would want to fight against that. Why would "love" become controversial? Is it not written in another place, "God is love?"
 

Rosenritter

New member
God's knowledge of conterfactuals - 1 Samuel 23:7-13:

Saul was told that David had gone to Keilah, and he said, “God has delivered him into my hands, for David has imprisoned himself by entering a town with gates and bars.” And Saul called up all his forces for battle, to go down to Keilah to besiege David and his men.

When David learned that Saul was plotting against him, he said to Abiathar the priest, “Bring the ephod.” David said, “Lord, God of Israel, your servant has heard definitely that Saul plans to come to Keilah and destroy the town on account of me. Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me to him? Will Saul come down, as your servant has heard? Lord, God of Israel, tell your servant.”

And the Lord said, “He will.”

Again David asked, “Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to Saul?”

And the Lord said, “They will.”

So David and his men, about six hundred in number, left Keilah and kept moving from place to place. When Saul was told that David had escaped from Keilah, he did not go there.

I could also provide other examples where God knew what someone would do when they themselves did not realize that they would do it. Christ's "before the **** crows" to Peter comes to mind. God may know our own hearts better than we do. These are not things I haven't considered.

Matthew 26:34-35 KJV
(34) Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the **** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
(35) Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.


A trained fighter reads his opponent and sometimes knows what he will do before they know themselves, and I imagine God is at least that skilled. If our heart has already been set, I believe God can read it.

This does not mean that God can tell every decision that we will make before we make it. Some of our "decisions" were really decided long ago. I believe these can be read. But if God knew what we would decide in those moments when we have the potential to change our heart, then why would he test us?

Genesis 22:10-12 KJV
(10) And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
(11) And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
(12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

It might be one thing if God had said, "Now you know that you fearest God" but he said "now I know that thou fearest God." There we have at least one example of where God needed a test to know Abraham's heart. At least that's what the scripture literally says.
 
Last edited:

beloved57

Well-known member
John 3:16, "The world" includes "all mankind."
John 7:37, "Any man" includes "all mankind."
John 12:32, "All men" includes "all mankind."
Acts 17:30, "All men" includes "all mankind."
1 Timothy 2:4, "All men" includes "all mankind."
2 Peter 3:8, "Any" and "all" includes "all mankind."

I don't understand why someone would want to fight against that. Why would "love" become controversial? Is it not written in another place, "God is love?"

None of those scriptures says that they mean all mankind. That is what you are saying.
 

Sonnet

New member
I could also provide other examples where God knew what someone would do when they themselves did not realize that they would do it. Christ's "before the **** crows" to Peter comes to mind. God may know our own hearts better than we do. These are not things I haven't considered.

Matthew 26:34-35 KJV
(34) Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the **** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
(35) Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.


A trained fighter reads his opponent and sometimes knows what he will do before they know themselves, and I imagine God is at least that skilled. If our heart has already been set, I believe God can read it.

This does not mean that God can tell every decision that we will make before we make it. Some of our "decisions" were really decided long ago. I believe these can be read. But if God knew what we would decide in those moments when we have the potential to change our heart, then why would he test us?

Genesis 22:10-12 KJV
(10) And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
(11) And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
(12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

It might be one thing if God had said, "Now you know that you fearest God" but he said "now I know that thou fearest God." There we have at least one example of where God needed a test to know Abraham's heart. At least that's what the scripture literally says.

This really made me /is making me think....will revert...

So **** is indeed censored.
 
Top