Daniel1769
New member
"Israel and their Messiah" makes me tune you out. Not interested in hearing about how Jesus is only Israel's Messiah. If that's not what you meant, choose better phrasing. Good day.
Rapture Ready
- Thread starter serpentdove
- Start date
"Israel and their Messiah" makes me tune you out. Not interested in hearing about how Jesus is only Israel's Messiah. If that's not what you meant, choose better phrasing. Good day.
So...who are 'the eagles' in your version?
Right Divider
Body part
Good for you Mr. MyWay...
He is Israel's Messiah and a blessing to the whole world.
Sorry that we don't all meet your pet definitions.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Only eagles makes any sense.
I have studied it out.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
because Jesus is speaking of those looking for Him, NOT to the wicked.
They are looking for Him, not to come from Heaven but where has He gone since His coming and the resurrection has occurred Heb 9:28 Rev 1:7
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
That is AFTER the return of Christ and the resurrection according to--
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
LA
musterion
Well-known member
Threatening me with nakedness now? You're a creep.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
When millions of Christians just disappear off of the face of the earth there will be countless thousands and thousands of people who will come to the conclusion that the missing people were "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air. They will make up the righteous after the saints are caught up!
I showed you what the Bible teaches and you just refuse to believe what is said. Since you obviously think that what I wrote in my last post to you is in error then tell me exactly what I said that is in error. So far you have not even attempted to do that!
Why not?
musterion
Well-known member
Maybe, but I'm not sure. Why would they suddenly believe that? Seems to me they'll be meat for the coming strong delusion which would preclude believing any of the prior (and by then inoperative) truths specific to this dispensation of grace, including that one, because they sure didn't believe them before. I could be wrong, though.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
When the catching up happens there will be much speculation as to what actually happened. And there will be many people who will realize that what just happened matches perfectly with what their Christian friends told them would happen. Then they will study the Bible in an attempt to determine the truth. And I think that that investigation will lead many to the knowledge of the truth which saves.
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Right Divider
Body part
I agree. That will come before the "strong delusion".
musterion
Well-known member
I still dunno. What says the delusion can't run concurrently? Paul said the strong delusion will come upon those who refused to receive a love of the Truth, the result being that they will believe The Lie, presumably re: Antichrist. They will have heard but rejected the Gospel. Those would seem to be exactly the ones Paul said will receive the delusion -- not suddenly seeking after Christ when a bunch of people vanish.
Right Divider
Body part
I agree with all of that, and yet the Bible says that there are believers on earth during the great tribulation. They are protected supernaturally by the LORD Jesus Christ.
They are those that do not take the mark of the beast and will not be able to buy and sell. That will make food hard to come by and hence the "daily bread" that the LORD will provide (just like He did in the wilderness, i.e., one of the shadows of things to come).
Perhaps those will be ones that believe that Jesus is the Christ per the gospel of the kingdom. Maybe many of the "kingdom folks" here on TOL will participate.
musterion
Well-known member
That, I see happening. But not with those who never change their minds about rejecting the gospel of the grace of God.
Nope. They're already rejecting the grace gospel. If they persist in their unbelief unto the end of this day of grace, they'll get the delusion (most are already very deluded).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Then how do you explain that after the catching up of the saints there will be "elect" on the earth during the great tribulation:?
"For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt.24:21-22).
Thanks!
Daniel1769
New member
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Now they just vanish and no one knows where they went? Where's that verse? I think you've watched too many movies, like that Left Behind fiction.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Why do you continue to refuse to even attempt to prove that what I said here is in error?:
Let us look at the Lord's words here from the 24th chapter of Matthew:
"For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left" (Mt.24:38-41).
These words of the Lord Jesus were in answer to His disciples' question here:
"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt.24:3).
At the end of the age it will be the unrighteous who will be taken and the righteous who will be left:
"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt.13:37-43).
So we can understand that at Matthew 24:38-41 it is the unrighteous who will be taken and the righteous who will remain.
That is the exact opposite of what will happen at the rapture because then it will be the righteous who will be taken and the unrighteous who will be left.
That proves that the coming of the Lord Jesus as described in the 24th chapter of Matthews has nothing to do with the rapture!
Of course you continue to refuse to address these facts.
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Daniel1769
New member
Ok, first let's clarify your time line because I don't know what order you have the events in. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's the timeline I get from what you've said so far:
1. The saved disappear (rapture)
2. The tribulation
3. The unsaved are caught up to meet the Lord in the air.
4. The saved are left. even though they were raptured already?
And another question about your timeline, is how the rapture happens first in your timeline when 1 Thessalonians 15:52 says that it is at the last trumpet.
And yet another question is, why does the Book of Revelation exist if the saved are gone before the events happen that are detailed in it? Why is there so much time put into the signs of the end of time if the saved won't be around anyway? The unsaved that remain aren't going to care what the Bible says.
Hi and #3 and #4 are out of sequence !!
Here is the order !
#1 , The DEPARTURE of the B O C !!
#2 , The 7 year Tribulation , first Jacob's Trouble and Then the GREAT tRIBULATION !!
#3 At the end of the Great Tribulation the JUDGMENT of the Naions !~
These are 3 groups here , the Jews who will be Kings and Priests in the Millennium !!
Then there left 2 groups , SHEEP and GOATS !!
The SHEEP GENTILES og to the MILLENNIUM !!
The GOATS go to HELL !!
dan p