Racism, Bigotry and Misogyny at TOL

[ok doser]

Is a women more likely to be raped if she leaves the house or if she stays home?

in Iowa, for instance, looks like it's better not to stay home:

 

[Crucible]

Is it possible that it is the victims fault he was shot or beaten to death?

You all are taking 'fault' way too far. Where does 'fault' and 'irresponsibility' intersect? People seem to act as if there is no such intersection.

I don't think that's the problem. We would be feminizing men if we treat them like women, wouldn't we?

It's not about treating men like women, it's about treating women like women and not children.

Women need protection in society because they are more prone; they are easier, in general, to physically overpower.

That's simply just ignoring the reality that men endure violence than women across the board.

I'd be happy to check out your sources on this. I am not doubting you but I find the topic interesting.

It's true, so have at it :thumb:

Oooook. Sounds like you have some personal experience?

I have experience with violence in general. Many men do, where many women- most women even, do not. It's funny that the vestige that women face compared to men should be so much more pertained to.

 

[WizardofOz]

in Iowa, for instance, looks like it's better not to stay home:

Yeah I was just reading "How to avoid being raped". I was wrong about some of my assumptions...

Clothing, hairstyle, and behavior don't play the role you think they do in rape. There is no statistical evidence that states that wearing any particular kind of clothing or hairstyle makes you a rape target. Don’t let anyone try to convince you that you should wear clothes or hairstyles other than exactly what you want to wear. • Rape can involve orgasm or sexual arousal for the victim. Sexual arousal and orgasm are not always fully under our control. Your body may simply react to the stimulus. You should not feel bad or think that you weren’t raped just because you responded physically to your assault. • Rape doesn’t happen where you think it does. Most rapes, around 60%, happen either in your home or the rapist’s home. While dark parking lots are not safe and some rapes do occur in places like this, you should not spend most of your time thinking about nothing but self defense. • Fighting back may protect you. Statistically, under certain situations, you should fight back against your rapist because it will make them stop. This is a decision you will have to make for yourself, but essentially, if they don’t have a weapon, you should strongly consider fighting back and running away. • Rape is not about sex, it’s about power. Rape isn’t about the rapist getting sex when they can’t get it otherwise. It’s not about you looking too sexy or saying anything too flirtatious. Rape is about the rapist needing to feel in control. They're angry or they're sad or they have some other issue such as a mental illness. This is partially why there is so little you can do to really protect yourself. • Balance basic safety with living your life. Preventing rape should be on the shoulders of the rapists, plain and simple. However, the reality is that rape happens. Just like how we’d advise people to avoid driving on New Years Night because of drunk drivers or lock their car doors in bad neighborhoods, you shouldn’t stop taking the basic safety advice you find below just because society should better educate people about what rape is. • Rape is never your fault. It doesn’t matter how you dress, how you act, if you’ve had sex before, who your rapist is, what you said to them, how much you had to drink, where you were, or anything else: you getting raped is never your fault. It is the fault of your rapist. They made that decision. Even if you follow none of the advice below, your rape is not your fault and you are not required to take any of these measures. Don’t ever blame yourself.

 

[Tambora]

Do you think no one can act contrary to God's will?

yes

Then no one stripping is acting contrary to God's will?
And no wife committing adultery is acting contrary to God's will?

I guess you just shouldn't speak against those that are carrying out God's will.

Your logic is atrocious.

 

[ok doser]

Even if you follow none of the advice below, your rape is not your fault and you are not required to take any of these measures.

:doh:



i was just looking at the same thing and missed that

i like the "hard pinch" advice - most of the rest of it was in the literature they were distributing at school - and they're missing a lot of other stuff that the school material included

 

[Tambora]

in Iowa, for instance, looks like it's better not to stay home:

Doser's logic ------ if it is high risk to have a residence, then you shouldn't engage in high risk behavior by having a residence.

Lunacy!

 

[ok doser]

i suspect tam will dodge this one again, but hope springs eternal:

You are exactly right, Rocketman!

I had the audacity to take the risk of walking from an apartment to my car.

were you aware that there was a high risk of being raped?

did you choose to ignore that risk?

 

[PureX]

The fact that there is a risk of rape, anywhere, under any circumstances, is the fault of the rapist; past, present, and would-be. So the fact that a woman might ignore such a risk does not make her responsible for that risk, in any way, should something occur. Because the risk was never her fault, nor her responsibility, to begin with.

But the dimwits, here, aren't going to understand this. They've been practicing at their willful stupidity for so long that they have become profoundly stupid. And this point will be lost on them.

 

[ok doser]

The fact that there is a risk of car theft, anywhere, under any circumstances, is the fault of the thief; past, present, and would-be. So the fact that a woman might ignore such a risk does not make her responsible in any way, should it occur. Because the risk was never her responsibility to begin with.

and yet we recognize the contributory effect of the careless woman who leaves her car door open and the engine running while she runs into the 711 for a donut

 

[ClimateSanity]

The fact that there is a risk of rape, anywhere, under any circumstances, is the fault of the rapist; past, present, and would-be. So the fact that a woman might ignore such a risk does not make her responsible for that risk, in any way, should something occur. Because the risk was never her fault, nor her responsibility, to begin with.

But the dimwits, here, aren't going to be able to understand this. They've been practicing at their willful stupidity for so long that they have become profoundly stupid. And this point will be lost on them.

OK doser understands it. I do. Glorydaz understands it. Who are the dimwits you had in mind.?

 

[Angel4Truth]

No. But out of curiosity, before I answered, what did you think my position was if you don't mind saying?

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of it, same as with most other people.

I just wanted to know if you agreed with that statement.

 

[ok doser]

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of it, same as with most other people.

and you manage to do it without going off the deep end


perhaps knight should hire you to give lessons

 

[truthjourney]

i suspect tam will dodge this one again, but hope springs eternal:



were you aware that there was a high risk of being raped?

did you choose to ignore that risk?

You sound like a defense lawyer for a rapist in a courtroom grilling the victim on the witness stand.

 

[ok doser]

OK doser understands it. I do. Glorydaz understands it. Who are the dimwits you had in mind.?

he's used to talking to a mirror

 

[ok doser]

You sound like a defense lawyer in a courtroom grilling the victim on the witness stand.

well, those are important nuances to my position that tam chooses to ignore in her haste to misrepresent me

it all hinges on awareness of risk and choice to ignore that risk

 

[Angel4Truth]

But a man is more than twice as likely to endure any other form of violence, including being shot or beaten to death.

Is it possible that it is the victims fault he was shot or beaten to death?

Fault? No, not necessarily. The definition used in the original discussion was "earned by ones actions" and yes people can earn negative consequences to their actions, it doesn't mean they are justified, or that the perpetrator is less guilty of what THEY did, just that in some cases a victim can place themselves in harms way or act in such a manner that they themselves increase the likelihood of being a victim.

I wonder how many liberals for example would defend a black man saying it was understandable, if he shot someone who called him the n word and egged him on?

Was the perp justified in what they did? No.

However did the victim increase the likelihood of getting harmed because of what he did? Yep. (earned by actions)

We can earn both good and bad things for our own actions in many cases, and it doesnt mean, what happened was justified.

That keeps getting missed.

 

[WizardofOz]

You all are taking 'fault' way too far. Where does 'fault' and 'irresponsibility' intersect? People seem to act as if there is no such intersection.

A lot of examples have been given where a person is irresponsible and hurt themselves. There is no other fault in those situations but the individual.

However if a woman is attacked, the attacker is at 100% fault, regardless of what behavior the women exhibited prior.

It's not about treating men like women, it's about treating women like women and not children.

Agreed. Can you offer any examples of women being treated like children?

Women need protection in society because they are more prone; they are easier, in general, to physically overpower.

That's simply just ignoring the reality that men endure violence than women across the board.

Could both be reality? :think:
If so, there is not necessarily any ignoring going on. It's more you shifting the focus to a new topic altogether.

It's true, so have at it :thumb:

Oh, I was hoping that you could back up your claim...

I have experience with violence in general. Many men do, where many women- most women even, do not. It's funny that the vestige that women face compared to men should be so much more pertained to.

Do you disagree that women need more protection in general than men?

 

[ClimateSanity]

I agree with some of what you say and disagree with some of it, same as with most other people.

I just wanted to know if you agreed with that statement.

I don't agree it is ever justified to force sex with a spouse or anyone else. I wanted to know if you thought you knew the answer before I said it. I'm trying to gauge whether you think I'm a monster or not. I hide under new names to keep out from under a ban. I said some pretty disagreeable things two years ago and I'm not talking about argument. Those things might sway your opinion.

 

[Rusha]

Yep.

And he seems to revel in the thought that they do get raped, and even laughs about it.

Not sure how anyone with the ability to read can deny this ...

Or perhaps it's just that pack mentality they are agreeing with.

 

[Angel4Truth]

The fact that there is a risk of rape, anywhere, under any circumstances, is the fault of the rapist; past, present, and would-be. So the fact that a woman might ignore such a risk does not make her responsible for that risk, in any way, should something occur. Because the risk was never her fault, nor her responsibility, to begin with.

But the dimwits, here, aren't going to be able to understand this. They've been practicing at their willful stupidity for so long that they have become profoundly stupid. And this point will be lost on them.

Other than crucible, who has stated that a rapist is justified or less guilty of what they did?

Some people are pretending some people believe that, no one (other than crucible) has maintained any such lie, and a lie is what that is.