Question: "They will return here." How do we understand this Biblical phrase?

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Since you asked me why I would say that, allow me to explain.

What do we find happening in Acts 2:5-11?
“Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, ‘Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.’”

Now, we see the return of the remnant of both houses back into their own land into Jerusalem. “From every nation under heaven” is qualified by the corresponding passage of Isaiah 11:11 which directly represents the scattered remnants of Judah and Israel. “Then it will happen on that day that the Lord will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.” God is bringing back to Jerusalem representatives of the remnant from every nation that was occupied by the dispersed Jews from the time of the captivity until the time of the events in Acts two.

A. Peter first addresses the nation of Judah in 14-21
and binds the beginning of the fulfillment of all these things spoken by their own prophet Joel concerning the nation of Judah and he links the things in Joel two to the things that were taking place in Acts two. “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.”

1. Joel represented the time in which these events would occur as the last days, “and it shall be in the last days.” “The Last Days” represented the close of an era involving four things, the close of the Jewish economy, the fulfillment of the prophets’ message, the beginning of the reign of Messiah, and the destruction of the nation.

a. The close of the Jewish economy. The last days brought the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. Everything that the Jews held dear is now changed.

*All of their sacrifices were now rendered null and void. These sacrifices saw their realization in the sacrifice of Jesus, 9:11-15.
* The earthly tabernacle with its altar and sanctuary is now empty of the presence of God, 8:1-2.
* The Law of Moses was fulfilled and taken out of the way, 8:6.
* The priesthood which served as the mediator between God and man is now obsolete, superseded by the High Priest of a new order, 9:11,15.

b. The end of the prophetic era – The message spoken through the prophets has now become reality. There is a new spokesman.
c. The beginning of the reign of Messiah
The scepter of the kingdom has now passed to the true King of kings, 1:8. This is the beginning of the reign of Messiah. As a nation, Israel and Judah had been divided for about 950 years since the reigns of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. Now, under Messiah, these two nations will find unity again as one nation under a new King.
d. The end of the Israel as a nation. In less than forty year, this nation would be destroyed and Jerusalem leveled.

2. These people were witnessing the fulfillment of the promise to “pour out My Spirit upon all mankind.” This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is God making the Holy Spirit available to all mankind. This was a one time, for all time, for all men event. It had never happened before and it would never happen again.
3. Peter binds the fulfillment of the promise of the empowering of the Holy Spirit. “And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on My bond slaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of my Spirit and they shall prophesy.”

We can see the confirmation of this in throughout the rest of the book of Acts as well as in such passages as 1Corinthians 12 and others.
4. Peter pronounces the judgment of God upon the nation of Judah that was spoken by Joel, “And I will grant wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. ‘The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.” These are judgment figures commonly used in scripture to speak of the destruction of nation.
5. Peter binds the fulfillment of the promise of the Lord to provide a means of salvation from this destruction. “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved,” 21.
6. It needs to be understood that what Peter is confirming in this presentation is the fulfillment of the words of John the immerser in Matthew 3:11, “I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” In Acts 2:17-18 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that John promised. The recipients of this promise were those whom John was addressing – the Jews, the same people he himself was baptizing with water. In Acts 2:19-20 is the baptism of fire. Fire is widely used in scripture as a judgment figure. This is God's judgment upon the nation. This is stressed by John's continued exegesis of this baptism of fire in Matthew 3:12, “His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” God's judgment is represented as a baptism of fire that was about to come upon them. This is precisely the same thing Peter is telling the hearers in Acts 2. Yet, both John and Peter confirm that in the midst of all of this judgment, the Lord is providing a way of escape. “He will gather His wheat (the saved) into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff (These are the condemned, the lost, the cursed. These are the spiritually worthless) with unquenchable fire.” This is unrelenting destruction.

B. Peter then addresses the northern Nation of Israel, 22-35.

1. Peter accuses them of culpability in the crucifixion of Jesus.
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.”

Peter reveals the crucifixion of Jesus as part of a predetermined plan of God. Jesus was not delivered over by man but by God himself. This makes his listeners nothing more than mere incidentals in the plan of God for the redemption of humanity. This does not however dismiss their culpability. They are still confronted with the guilt of their actions – “God authenticated Him and you killed Him!” The statement “by the hands of godless men” is exact in its representation of the facts in the case. They were not the instrument of his crucifixion, they were merely the instigators. The instrument of the crucifixion was the Roman soldiers. No power in heaven or on earth could take Jesus' life from him had he not been will to give it. All the power of the Jews and the combined legions of the Roman army could not have even so much as arrest him much less kill him if he had not permitted it to be so. His life could never have been taken it had to be given, Isaiah 9:6.
2. Peter offers two Psalms as testimony of God's predetermination of the resurrection of Jesus. The crucifixion of Jesus was no accident nor was it an unexpected debacle in the plan of God.

a. Psalms 16:8-10, “But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. For David says of Him, I saw the Lord always in my presence; for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken. Therefore, My heart was glad and my tongue exulted; moreover My flesh also will live in hope; Because You will not abandon My soul to hades, nor allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. You have made known to Me the ways of life; You will make Me full of gladness with Your presence.”


Peter declares the fact of the resurrection, “But God raised Him up again.” Peter, for the first time, makes a public declaration of the resurrection of Jesus. This was something the Jewish leadership had tried hard to keep quiet. In Matthew 28:11-15 they had attempted to cover up the resurrection by paying off the guards. But, like most scandals, I am sure this had been whispered widely among the populace. Since it was to have been top secret information quite naturally everyone knew about it.
b. Psalms 110:1, “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, ‘’Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”


* The Father's promise of the Holy Spirit has been now realized.
“Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.” “Having poured out” is aorist indicative active which emphasizes the fact that the pouring out of the Holy Spirit was an act that was completed in the past (At the beginning of this event) and continues to be poured out on all flesh. This confirms that the promise from Joel is fulfilled.


C. Now, Peter addresses the whole nation collectively, 36.
“Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
1. In Psalms 2, the drama unfolds of the conflict between the enemies of God and his anointed One. These enemies are the nations, the people, the kings of the earth, and the rulers. These have assembled themselves together against their Messiah not willing to accept his rule. After having done all they could do at Calvary to "tear their fetters" and "cast their cords," the roles are now reversed, In verses four through six, it is now the One who sits in heaven who laughs. The Lord now scoffs at them. His anger is displayed and he terrifies them in his fury. In spite of everything man could do to free himself from the rule of Messiah, God says, "I have installed My King!" In verses seven through twelve, he declares the preeminence of the Son saying:
a. "I have begotten You."
b. "I will be to him a Father."
c. "I will give You the nations..."
d. "The ends of the earth are Your possession."
e. "You will break them with the rod of iron."
f. "You will scatter them."
All of these serve to stress the certainty of God's purpose. It will be done! Now, the warning is given to the kings and judges of the earth to submit to the sovereignty of Messiah. What must then follow is God's required response form man.
g. "Worship Jehovah with reverence."
h. "Rejoice and tremble."
i. "Do homage to the Son."
j. "Take refuge in him." This is God's ultimatum to man. If they refuse,
k. "He will become angry."
l. "You will perish in the way."
m. "His wrath will may soon be kindled."

2. In verses 22-36 Peter has confirmed five facts from scripture regarding this Jesus whom they had crucified.
a. God authenticated him.
b. God raised him from the dead.
c. God seated him at his right hand.
d. God seated him on the throne of his father David.
e. God appointed him as LORD, the anointed One. The one you crucified is your Messiah.
f. Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophets. Peter's indictment was “God authenticated him and you killed him.”

Characteristics of the Reunification of a Once Divided Nation; A New Kingdom is Born, 41-47.
“So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.”


A. Devotion to the apostles teaching – The apostles are universally accepted by the respondents as authoritative and whatever they taught was recognized by the people as being from God. The justification for this devotion was reinforced by the wonders and signs done by the hands of the apostles. The signs done by the apostles served as divine credentials for their message and the response by the people was one of awe. So, the people were convinced of the gospel message on three fronts.

1. By the force of the argumentation of Peter from the prophet Joel and from the testimony of David.
2. By the resurrection of Jesus
3. By the signs done by the apostles. This would seem to serve to convince some of the more hesitant among them.

B. Demonstrations of unity, 42-47
What is being experienced by these Jews was the restoration of the all the tribes into one nation, into one kingdom. For the first time in over 950 years since the division of the nation, both Judah and Israel find solidarity under a common King. This solidarity manifests itself in three forms – fellowship, eating, and worship. The description of these forms is then expanded upon in the following verses.

1. A common sharing – “And all those who had believed were together (Both Judah and Israel) and had all things in common;” There is no more division. Their commonality is rooted in their common relationship with Christ. This manifested itself in the sharing of possessions for the common needs of the body. “And they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.” THIS is true fellowship. This is self-motivated generosity, not coercion and not communistic philosophy. This does not appear to be commanded by the apostles neither here nor anywhere else in the New Testament. This generosity lends credibility to the genuineness of the conversion of these hearers and the unity they now jointly share. All of the old animosities are gone. This generosity is mutually acceptable.
2. Common worship “Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple.”
This was not a short lived existential experience that was only brought about by the heightened emotional experience of the moment and forgotten once the experience had passed. This was continued from day to day. Not only had it continued as time began to pass but as we will see from later examples it intensified. Israel is no longer worshiping at Dan and Bethel while Judah worships in Jerusalem. There is no more Dan and Bethel for Israel. God has taken the “remnant” of both houses and brought them back into Jerusalem to worship the Lord together in the Temple as one nation under one King – Messiah just as the prophets said he would. They are now worshiping God together in common.
3. The common table
“And breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people.”
This is a sharing of common meals. This kind of fellowship was never extended to anyone who was considered an enemy, or an infidel, or unclean, or anyone who was otherwise undesirable. This was a manifestation of a common acceptance of one another as brothers because of the common faith factor.
4. The message of the gospel continued to be spread now from house to house with favorable results. “And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.” This is where Church growth happens; not in the pulpit but in living rooms and across kitchen tables.

Peace is Restored in the Kingdom of God.

This is what both Isaiah and Micah had prophesied.
A. Edinic conditions are restored.
“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. Also, the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” In other words, they are not devouring one another. Isaiah. 11:6-9. This is not to be understood as literal language.
(Isaiah 35:9, “No lion will be there, nor will any vicious beast go up on it; These will not be found there. But the redeemed will walk there”).

1. This a symbol of natural enemies existing in peace with one another and with man.
2. It is only “In all My holy mountain” - the Church that these conditions exist. The holy mountain of God is Zion – the Church, Hebrews 12:18-23.
3. This would happen when “the whole earth is full of the knowledge of Jehovah.” The filling of the earth was the commission given to the apostle and jointly to us, Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:46-49. John 20:19-20 It began here in Acts 2 and continues still.

B. These peaceful conditions would be then extended to the nations.
“And it will come about in the last days that the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, and the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, ‘Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord and to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us about His ways and that we may walk in His paths.’ For from Zion will go forth the law, even the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples and render decisions for mighty, distant nations.” Micah 4:1-8 and Isaiah 2:2-4
1. All the nations would stream into the mountain of the house of the Lord. Here is the exclusive place of peace.
2. The purpose of the assembly of the nations was to learn his ways so that they could walk in his paths.
3. It is only here that men will abide in peace. “Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they train for war. Each of them will sit under his vine and under his fig tree, with no one to make them afraid for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. Though all the peoples walk each in the name of his god, as for us.” Only in the Church do all the nations of men dwell in peace with one another for it is only here that the nations “will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever.”

The Sanctuary of God is Now Among Men.
Peace is Restored in the Kingdom of God.
A. Edinic conditions are restored.
“I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. “My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. “And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.” Ezekiel 37:26-27

1. Acts 2 is the fulfillment of the covenant initiated to Abraham in Genesis 17:7-8 and repeated some 17 times in the Old Testament and twice in the New Testament in which God says, “I will be their God, and they will be My people.”
2. The defining attribute of this covenant would be the fact that God had set his sanctuary in the midst of them forever and that they have become the dwelling place of Jehovah because now, the Church, represented here in the restored remnant of the nation of Israel, has become the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. The Church is the temple of God made without hands. The Church is the New Jerusalem where God has placed his name.

Thank you.
 

Right Divider

Body part
Since you asked me why I would say that, allow me to explain.

What do we find happening in Acts 2:5-11?
“Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. They were amazed and astonished, saying, ‘Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.’”

Now, we see the return of the remnant of both houses back into their own land into Jerusalem. “From every nation under heaven” is qualified by the corresponding passage of Isaiah 11:11 which directly represents the scattered remnants of Judah and Israel. “Then it will happen on that day that the Lord will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.” God is bringing back to Jerusalem representatives of the remnant from every nation that was occupied by the dispersed Jews from the time of the captivity until the time of the events in Acts two.

A. Peter first addresses the nation of Judah in 14-21
and binds the beginning of the fulfillment of all these things spoken by their own prophet Joel concerning the nation of Judah and he links the things in Joel two to the things that were taking place in Acts two. “Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words.”

1. Joel represented the time in which these events would occur as the last days, “and it shall be in the last days.” “The Last Days” represented the close of an era involving four things, the close of the Jewish economy, the fulfillment of the prophets’ message, the beginning of the reign of Messiah, and the destruction of the nation.

a. The close of the Jewish economy. The last days brought the fulfillment of the Law of Moses. Everything that the Jews held dear is now changed.

*All of their sacrifices were now rendered null and void. These sacrifices saw their realization in the sacrifice of Jesus, 9:11-15.
* The earthly tabernacle with its altar and sanctuary is now empty of the presence of God, 8:1-2.
* The Law of Moses was fulfilled and taken out of the way, 8:6.
* The priesthood which served as the mediator between God and man is now obsolete, superseded by the High Priest of a new order, 9:11,15.

b. The end of the prophetic era – The message spoken through the prophets has now become reality. There is a new spokesman.
c. The beginning of the reign of Messiah
The scepter of the kingdom has now passed to the true King of kings, 1:8. This is the beginning of the reign of Messiah. As a nation, Israel and Judah had been divided for about 950 years since the reigns of Rehoboam and Jeroboam. Now, under Messiah, these two nations will find unity again as one nation under a new King.
d. The end of the Israel as a nation. In less than forty year, this nation would be destroyed and Jerusalem leveled.

2. These people were witnessing the fulfillment of the promise to “pour out My Spirit upon all mankind.” This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This is God making the Holy Spirit available to all mankind. This was a one time, for all time, for all men event. It had never happened before and it would never happen again.
3. Peter binds the fulfillment of the promise of the empowering of the Holy Spirit. “And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on My bond slaves, both men and women, I will in those days pour forth of my Spirit and they shall prophesy.”

We can see the confirmation of this in throughout the rest of the book of Acts as well as in such passages as 1Corinthians 12 and others.
4. Peter pronounces the judgment of God upon the nation of Judah that was spoken by Joel, “And I will grant wonders in the sky above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke. ‘The sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.” These are judgment figures commonly used in scripture to speak of the destruction of nation.
5. Peter binds the fulfillment of the promise of the Lord to provide a means of salvation from this destruction. “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved,” 21.
6. It needs to be understood that what Peter is confirming in this presentation is the fulfillment of the words of John the immerser in Matthew 3:11, “I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” In Acts 2:17-18 is the baptism of the Holy Spirit that John promised. The recipients of this promise were those whom John was addressing – the Jews, the same people he himself was baptizing with water. In Acts 2:19-20 is the baptism of fire. Fire is widely used in scripture as a judgment figure. This is God's judgment upon the nation. This is stressed by John's continued exegesis of this baptism of fire in Matthew 3:12, “His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” God's judgment is represented as a baptism of fire that was about to come upon them. This is precisely the same thing Peter is telling the hearers in Acts 2. Yet, both John and Peter confirm that in the midst of all of this judgment, the Lord is providing a way of escape. “He will gather His wheat (the saved) into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff (These are the condemned, the lost, the cursed. These are the spiritually worthless) with unquenchable fire.” This is unrelenting destruction.

B. Peter then addresses the northern Nation of Israel, 22-35.

1. Peter accuses them of culpability in the crucifixion of Jesus.
“Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. This Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.”

Peter reveals the crucifixion of Jesus as part of a predetermined plan of God. Jesus was not delivered over by man but by God himself. This makes his listeners nothing more than mere incidentals in the plan of God for the redemption of humanity. This does not however dismiss their culpability. They are still confronted with the guilt of their actions – “God authenticated Him and you killed Him!” The statement “by the hands of godless men” is exact in its representation of the facts in the case. They were not the instrument of his crucifixion, they were merely the instigators. The instrument of the crucifixion was the Roman soldiers. No power in heaven or on earth could take Jesus' life from him had he not been will to give it. All the power of the Jews and the combined legions of the Roman army could not have even so much as arrest him much less kill him if he had not permitted it to be so. His life could never have been taken it had to be given, Isaiah 9:6.
2. Peter offers two Psalms as testimony of God's predetermination of the resurrection of Jesus. The crucifixion of Jesus was no accident nor was it an unexpected debacle in the plan of God.

a. Psalms 16:8-10, “But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. For David says of Him, I saw the Lord always in my presence; for he is at my right hand, so that I will not be shaken. Therefore, My heart was glad and my tongue exulted; moreover My flesh also will live in hope; Because You will not abandon My soul to hades, nor allow Your Holy One to undergo decay. You have made known to Me the ways of life; You will make Me full of gladness with Your presence.”


Peter declares the fact of the resurrection, “But God raised Him up again.” Peter, for the first time, makes a public declaration of the resurrection of Jesus. This was something the Jewish leadership had tried hard to keep quiet. In Matthew 28:11-15 they had attempted to cover up the resurrection by paying off the guards. But, like most scandals, I am sure this had been whispered widely among the populace. Since it was to have been top secret information quite naturally everyone knew about it.
b. Psalms 110:1, “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay. This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: ‘The Lord said to my Lord, ‘’Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”


* The Father's promise of the Holy Spirit has been now realized.
“Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.” “Having poured out” is aorist indicative active which emphasizes the fact that the pouring out of the Holy Spirit was an act that was completed in the past (At the beginning of this event) and continues to be poured out on all flesh. This confirms that the promise from Joel is fulfilled.


C. Now, Peter addresses the whole nation collectively, 36.
“Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
1. In Psalms 2, the drama unfolds of the conflict between the enemies of God and his anointed One. These enemies are the nations, the people, the kings of the earth, and the rulers. These have assembled themselves together against their Messiah not willing to accept his rule. After having done all they could do at Calvary to "tear their fetters" and "cast their cords," the roles are now reversed, In verses four through six, it is now the One who sits in heaven who laughs. The Lord now scoffs at them. His anger is displayed and he terrifies them in his fury. In spite of everything man could do to free himself from the rule of Messiah, God says, "I have installed My King!" In verses seven through twelve, he declares the preeminence of the Son saying:
a. "I have begotten You."
b. "I will be to him a Father."
c. "I will give You the nations..."
d. "The ends of the earth are Your possession."
e. "You will break them with the rod of iron."
f. "You will scatter them."
All of these serve to stress the certainty of God's purpose. It will be done! Now, the warning is given to the kings and judges of the earth to submit to the sovereignty of Messiah. What must then follow is God's required response form man.
g. "Worship Jehovah with reverence."
h. "Rejoice and tremble."
i. "Do homage to the Son."
j. "Take refuge in him." This is God's ultimatum to man. If they refuse,
k. "He will become angry."
l. "You will perish in the way."
m. "His wrath will may soon be kindled."

2. In verses 22-36 Peter has confirmed five facts from scripture regarding this Jesus whom they had crucified.
a. God authenticated him.
b. God raised him from the dead.
c. God seated him at his right hand.
d. God seated him on the throne of his father David.
e. God appointed him as LORD, the anointed One. The one you crucified is your Messiah.
f. Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophets. Peter's indictment was “God authenticated him and you killed him.”

Characteristics of the Reunification of a Once Divided Nation; A New Kingdom is Born, 41-47.
“So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls. They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone kept feeling a sense of awe; and many wonders and signs were taking place through the apostles.”


A. Devotion to the apostles teaching – The apostles are universally accepted by the respondents as authoritative and whatever they taught was recognized by the people as being from God. The justification for this devotion was reinforced by the wonders and signs done by the hands of the apostles. The signs done by the apostles served as divine credentials for their message and the response by the people was one of awe. So, the people were convinced of the gospel message on three fronts.

1. By the force of the argumentation of Peter from the prophet Joel and from the testimony of David.
2. By the resurrection of Jesus
3. By the signs done by the apostles. This would seem to serve to convince some of the more hesitant among them.

B. Demonstrations of unity, 42-47
What is being experienced by these Jews was the restoration of the all the tribes into one nation, into one kingdom. For the first time in over 950 years since the division of the nation, both Judah and Israel find solidarity under a common King. This solidarity manifests itself in three forms – fellowship, eating, and worship. The description of these forms is then expanded upon in the following verses.

1. A common sharing – “And all those who had believed were together (Both Judah and Israel) and had all things in common;” There is no more division. Their commonality is rooted in their common relationship with Christ. This manifested itself in the sharing of possessions for the common needs of the body. “And they began selling their property and possessions and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need.” THIS is true fellowship. This is self-motivated generosity, not coercion and not communistic philosophy. This does not appear to be commanded by the apostles neither here nor anywhere else in the New Testament. This generosity lends credibility to the genuineness of the conversion of these hearers and the unity they now jointly share. All of the old animosities are gone. This generosity is mutually acceptable.
2. Common worship “Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple.”
This was not a short lived existential experience that was only brought about by the heightened emotional experience of the moment and forgotten once the experience had passed. This was continued from day to day. Not only had it continued as time began to pass but as we will see from later examples it intensified. Israel is no longer worshiping at Dan and Bethel while Judah worships in Jerusalem. There is no more Dan and Bethel for Israel. God has taken the “remnant” of both houses and brought them back into Jerusalem to worship the Lord together in the Temple as one nation under one King – Messiah just as the prophets said he would. They are now worshiping God together in common.
3. The common table
“And breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people.”
This is a sharing of common meals. This kind of fellowship was never extended to anyone who was considered an enemy, or an infidel, or unclean, or anyone who was otherwise undesirable. This was a manifestation of a common acceptance of one another as brothers because of the common faith factor.
4. The message of the gospel continued to be spread now from house to house with favorable results. “And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.” This is where Church growth happens; not in the pulpit but in living rooms and across kitchen tables.

Peace is Restored in the Kingdom of God.

This is what both Isaiah and Micah had prophesied.
A. Edinic conditions are restored.
“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb, and the leopard will lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little boy will lead them. Also, the cow and the bear will graze, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox the nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra, and the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den. They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” In other words, they are not devouring one another. Isaiah. 11:6-9. This is not to be understood as literal language.
(Isaiah 35:9, “No lion will be there, nor will any vicious beast go up on it; These will not be found there. But the redeemed will walk there”).

1. This a symbol of natural enemies existing in peace with one another and with man.
2. It is only “In all My holy mountain” - the Church that these conditions exist. The holy mountain of God is Zion – the Church, Hebrews 12:18-23.
3. This would happen when “the whole earth is full of the knowledge of Jehovah.” The filling of the earth was the commission given to the apostle and jointly to us, Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:15-16, Luke 24:46-49. John 20:19-20 It began here in Acts 2 and continues still.

B. These peaceful conditions would be then extended to the nations.
“And it will come about in the last days that the mountain of the house of the Lord will be established as the chief of the mountains. It will be raised above the hills, and the peoples will stream to it. Many nations will come and say, ‘Come and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord and to the house of the God of Jacob, that He may teach us about His ways and that we may walk in His paths.’ For from Zion will go forth the law, even the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He will judge between many peoples and render decisions for mighty, distant nations.” Micah 4:1-8 and Isaiah 2:2-4
1. All the nations would stream into the mountain of the house of the Lord. Here is the exclusive place of peace.
2. The purpose of the assembly of the nations was to learn his ways so that they could walk in his paths.
3. It is only here that men will abide in peace. “Then they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; Nation will not lift up sword against nation, and never again will they train for war. Each of them will sit under his vine and under his fig tree, with no one to make them afraid for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. Though all the peoples walk each in the name of his god, as for us.” Only in the Church do all the nations of men dwell in peace with one another for it is only here that the nations “will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever and ever.”

The Sanctuary of God is Now Among Men.
Peace is Restored in the Kingdom of God.
A. Edinic conditions are restored.
“I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will place them and multiply them and will set My sanctuary in their midst forever. “My dwelling place also will be with them; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. “And the nations will know that I am the LORD who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary is in their midst forever.” Ezekiel 37:26-27

1. Acts 2 is the fulfillment of the covenant initiated to Abraham in Genesis 17:7-8 and repeated some 17 times in the Old Testament and twice in the New Testament in which God says, “I will be their God, and they will be My people.”
2. The defining attribute of this covenant would be the fact that God had set his sanctuary in the midst of them forever and that they have become the dwelling place of Jehovah because now, the Church, represented here in the restored remnant of the nation of Israel, has become the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. The Church is the temple of God made without hands. The Church is the New Jerusalem where God has placed his name.
A wonderful post right up until the end when you ran off into the ditch.

The "Church" is NOT the "New Jerusalem".

And the Lord has NOT returned yet to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Why does it say "from the north country"? Did you see that part? Do you stand by what you said? What of what Jeremiah said?
Why is that a problem? It wasn't exclusive, but it was more specific than the attached part:
Jeremiah 31:8 NASB - "Behold, I am bringing them from the north country, And I will gather them from the remote parts of the earth...

What you are missing is the context, which is provided in the previous chapter (and some in this same chapter):
[Jer 30:3 KJV] For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Jeremiah was not only prophesying about Judah, but about Israel, too. Israel was taken captive by Assyria. Assyria is regularly referred to in scripture as north of the land of Israel.

But there is some chance that Jeremiah was also referring to the people of Judah as coming from the north, and not just from the remote parts of the earth. The preposition "from" in the verse is "מֵאֶרֶץ" in Hebrew, and like many prepositions in the bible, it seems to be an all-purpose pronoun:

Definition
from, out of, by, by reason of, at, more than
NASB Translations
according (2), after* (1), among* (1), because (2), because* (2), before* (3), besides* (2), commanded* (1), more than (1), part (1), partly (6), some* (1), soon* (1), surely* (1), than (1).

The "out of" definition is one that strikes me as more appropriate to the idea of Jews (Judah) also coming from the north. It gives the connotation of something arriving by way of the north. Here's a map of Israel and the other nations where they were taken captive, showing they must have headed north when leaving, and returned from the north, even if they ended up more easterly when in captivity.
israel_judah_exile_&_captivity_map.gif


Here's Cyrus' decree allowing the Jews to go home and build their temple:
[Ezr 1:2 YLT] 'Thus said Cyrus king of Persia, All kingdoms of the earth hath Jehovah, God of the heavens, given to me, and He hath laid a charge on me to build to Him a house in Jerusalem, that [is] in Judah;
[Ezr 1:3 YLT] who [is] among you of all His people? His God is with him, and he doth go up to Jerusalem, that [is] in Judah, and build the house of Jehovah, God of Israel -- He [is] God -- that [is] in Jerusalem.
[Ezr 1:4 YLT] 'And every one who is left, of any of the places where he [is] a sojourner, assist him do the men of his place with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, along with a free-will offering for the house of God, that [is] in Jerusalem.'

Here is a similar decree from Cyrus found by archaeologists in Babylon in 1879. It isn't targeted just to the Jews, but to all the nations that were taken captive and wanted to go home:

Excerpt from the Cyrus Cylinder, translated by Pritchard)
“I returned to these sacred cities on the other side of the Tigris, the sanctuaries of which have been ruins for a long time, the images which [used] to live therein and established for them permanent sanctuaries. I [also] gathered all their [former] inhabitants and returned [to them] their habitations” (Pritchard, 208).


Thus it must have included the northern 10 tribes, too, who were taken to the north and north-east.

This is one of the more well-established events in Jewish and world history. If Jeremiah was NOT referring to that event, it seems strange to me.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Why is that a problem? It wasn't exclusive, but it was more specific than the attached part:
Jeremiah 31:8 NASB - "Behold, I am bringing them from the north country, And I will gather them from the remote parts of the earth...

What you are missing is the context, which is provided in the previous chapter (and some in this same chapter):
[Jer 30:3 KJV] For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

Jeremiah was not only prophesying about Judah, but about Israel, too. Israel was taken captive by Assyria. Assyria is regularly referred to in scripture as north of the land of Israel.

But there is some chance that Jeremiah was also referring to the people of Judah as coming from the north, and not just from the remote parts of the earth. The preposition "from" in the verse is "מֵאֶרֶץ" in Hebrew, and like many prepositions in the bible, it seems to be an all-purpose pronoun:

Definition
from, out of, by, by reason of, at, more than
NASB Translations
according (2), after* (1), among* (1), because (2), because* (2), before* (3), besides* (2), commanded* (1), more than (1), part (1), partly (6), some* (1), soon* (1), surely* (1), than (1).

The "out of" definition is one that strikes me as more appropriate to the idea of Jews (Judah) also coming from the north. It gives the connotation of something arriving by way of the north. Here's a map of Israel and the other nations where they were taken captive, showing they must have headed north when leaving, and returned from the north, even if they ended up more easterly when in captivity.
israel_judah_exile_&_captivity_map.gif


Here's Cyrus' decree allowing the Jews to go home and build their temple:
[Ezr 1:2 YLT] 'Thus said Cyrus king of Persia, All kingdoms of the earth hath Jehovah, God of the heavens, given to me, and He hath laid a charge on me to build to Him a house in Jerusalem, that [is] in Judah;
[Ezr 1:3 YLT] who [is] among you of all His people? His God is with him, and he doth go up to Jerusalem, that [is] in Judah, and build the house of Jehovah, God of Israel -- He [is] God -- that [is] in Jerusalem.
[Ezr 1:4 YLT] 'And every one who is left, of any of the places where he [is] a sojourner, assist him do the men of his place with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, along with a free-will offering for the house of God, that [is] in Jerusalem.'

Here is a similar decree from Cyrus found by archaeologists in Babylon in 1879. It isn't targeted just to the Jews, but to all the nations that were taken captive and wanted to go home:

Excerpt from the Cyrus Cylinder, translated by Pritchard)
“I returned to these sacred cities on the other side of the Tigris, the sanctuaries of which have been ruins for a long time, the images which [used] to live therein and established for them permanent sanctuaries. I [also] gathered all their [former] inhabitants and returned [to them] their habitations” (Pritchard, 208).


Thus it must have included the northern 10 tribes, too, who were taken to the north and north-east.

This is one of the more well-established events in Jewish and world history. If Jeremiah was NOT referring to that event, it seems strange to me.

The only tribes mentioned that I can tell, that had returned by the first century, were Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. I have asked before about if there were more.
 

Derf

Well-known member
The only tribes mentioned that I can tell, that had returned by the first century, were Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. I have asked before about if there were more.

Anna, the prophetess that saw Jesus as a baby was from the tribe of Asher:
[Luk 2:36 YLT] And there was Anna, a prophetess, daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher, she was much advanced in days, having lived with an husband seven years from her virginity,

The Samaritans, though half-breeds, were descended from the northern tribes. It might not have been recorded so faithfully as Judah's return, but Judah was the one keeping the records. Plus, the amount of time the 10 tribes were in captivity was much longer--~200 years vs 70 years. It's unlikely the numbers of returnees was as great--how would descendants of slaves feel about returning to Africa today--~200 years after their ancestors were captured and dragged to America.

And the comparison between America and Africa vs Assyria and Samaria is probably a decent one in terms of what's available, what kind of life they would live, what kind of jobs they had and whether they would even be able to survive in the war-torn country of Samaria when they were allowed to return. But they might have filtered in slowly, so that in Jesus day, when He preached to them, He did not treat them the same as the Gentiles. I think that means they really were the descendants of the 10 tribes. What did He say in His commission to the disciples? [Act 1:8 KJV] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Samaria was special because the people there were special to Jesus.

One more thing--there were three of the ten tribes that were still represented within Judah:
[2Ch 15:9 KJV] And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God [was] with him.

These were people faithful to God that came over to Judah in the time of Asa. Or at least they saw the benefit of living under a righteous king.

Keep in mind that there could be multiple fulfillments of the same prophecy--I'm not ruling that out. But we don't always get full details on how God does what He said He would do. And there is some evidence of the ten tribes in Samaria and Judea in Jesus' day.
 

Jacob

BANNED
Banned
Anna, the prophetess that saw Jesus as a baby was from the tribe of Asher:
[Luk 2:36 YLT] And there was Anna, a prophetess, daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher, she was much advanced in days, having lived with an husband seven years from her virginity,

The Samaritans, though half-breeds, were descended from the northern tribes. It might not have been recorded so faithfully as Judah's return, but Judah was the one keeping the records. Plus, the amount of time the 10 tribes were in captivity was much longer--~200 years vs 70 years. It's unlikely the numbers of returnees was as great--how would descendants of slaves feel about returning to Africa today--~200 years after their ancestors were captured and dragged to America.

And the comparison between America and Africa vs Assyria and Samaria is probably a decent one in terms of what's available, what kind of life they would live, what kind of jobs they had and whether they would even be able to survive in the war-torn country of Samaria when they were allowed to return. But they might have filtered in slowly, so that in Jesus day, when He preached to them, He did not treat them the same as the Gentiles. I think that means they really were the descendants of the 10 tribes. What did He say in His commission to the disciples? [Act 1:8 KJV] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Samaria was special because the people there were special to Jesus.

One more thing--there were three of the ten tribes that were still represented within Judah:
[2Ch 15:9 KJV] And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God [was] with him.

These were people faithful to God that came over to Judah in the time of Asa. Or at least they saw the benefit of living under a righteous king.

Keep in mind that there could be multiple fulfillments of the same prophecy--I'm not ruling that out. But we don't always get full details on how God does what He said He would do. And there is some evidence of the ten tribes in Samaria and Judea in Jesus' day.

Thank you for this about the tribe of Asher.
 

Danoh

New member
Anna, the prophetess that saw Jesus as a baby was from the tribe of Asher:
[Luk 2:36 YLT] And there was Anna, a prophetess, daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher, she was much advanced in days, having lived with an husband seven years from her virginity,

The Samaritans, though half-breeds, were descended from the northern tribes. It might not have been recorded so faithfully as Judah's return, but Judah was the one keeping the records. Plus, the amount of time the 10 tribes were in captivity was much longer--~200 years vs 70 years. It's unlikely the numbers of returnees was as great--how would descendants of slaves feel about returning to Africa today--~200 years after their ancestors were captured and dragged to America.

And the comparison between America and Africa vs Assyria and Samaria is probably a decent one in terms of what's available, what kind of life they would live, what kind of jobs they had and whether they would even be able to survive in the war-torn country of Samaria when they were allowed to return. But they might have filtered in slowly, so that in Jesus day, when He preached to them, He did not treat them the same as the Gentiles. I think that means they really were the descendants of the 10 tribes. What did He say in His commission to the disciples? [Act 1:8 KJV] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Samaria was special because the people there were special to Jesus.

One more thing--there were three of the ten tribes that were still represented within Judah:
[2Ch 15:9 KJV] And he gathered all Judah and Benjamin, and the strangers with them out of Ephraim and Manasseh, and out of Simeon: for they fell to him out of Israel in abundance, when they saw that the LORD his God [was] with him.

These were people faithful to God that came over to Judah in the time of Asa. Or at least they saw the benefit of living under a righteous king.

Keep in mind that there could be multiple fulfillments of the same prophecy--I'm not ruling that out. But we don't always get full details on how God does what He said He would do. And there is some evidence of the ten tribes in Samaria and Judea in Jesus' day.

Such were the "other sheep" mentioned John 10:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

These here...

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Only AFTER that will the words of the very next passage be the case:

37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Which is this here...

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

While "the uttermost part of the earth" mentioned in Acts 1:8, refers His commissioning the Twelve to also go to those of Israel and Judah - "the children of God that were scattered abroad" John 11:52, those of them who were still out there - "the men of Judah, and...all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee" - Daniel 9:7.

What most miss, including you, derf, is what Christ had told the Twelve about all this, in the latter half of Matthew 10, about the outcome of their commission.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Followed by what He LATER revealed to and through - of all things foreign to all that - an Apostle of...the Gentiles!

That said Prophesied return to Israel in His Wrath to purge their rebels prior to His Blessing them at last, Matt. 13:41-43, was temporarily delayed, as planned by God, all along, Romans 9:22-24, and until after Romans 11:25.

Acts 17:11, 12.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Such were the "other sheep" mentioned John 10:

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

These here...

Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 37:23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Only AFTER that will the words of the very next passage be the case:

37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Which is this here...

Isaiah 2:1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

While "the uttermost part of the earth" mentioned in Acts 1:8, refers His commissioning the Twelve to also go to those of Israel and Judah - "the children of God that were scattered abroad" John 11:52, those of them who were still out there - "the men of Judah, and...all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee" - Daniel 9:7.

What most miss, including you, derf, is what Christ had told the Twelve about all this, in the latter half of Matthew 10, about the outcome of their commission.

Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Followed by what He LATER revealed to and through - of all things foreign to all that - an Apostle of...the Gentiles!

That said Prophesied return to Israel in His Wrath to purge their rebels prior to His Blessing them at last, Matt. 13:41-43, was temporarily delayed, Romans 9:22-24, until after Romans 11:25.

Acts 17:11, 12.

My contention, which you avoided completely, was that Jeremiah 31:8 had been fulfilled already. I don't think anything you wrote contradicts that.
 

Right Divider

Body part
My contention, which you avoided completely, was that Jeremiah 31:8 had been fulfilled already. I don't think anything you wrote contradicts that.
There is no way that Jeremiah 31:8 was fulfilled already. Read the WHOLE passage.

Jer 31:6-12 KJV For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God. (7) For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel. (8) Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. (12) Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.

Clearly many, many things happen at that time, including the bringing them from the north country and gathering them from the coasts of the earth.

Instead Israel was SCATTERED in Acts 8.
 

Derf

Well-known member
There is no way that Jeremiah 31:8 was fulfilled already. Read the WHOLE passage.

Jer 31:6-12 KJV For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God. (7) For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel. (8) Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the coasts of the earth, and with them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her that travaileth with child together: a great company shall return thither. (9) They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. (10) Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock. (11) For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. (12) Therefore they shall come and sing in the height of Zion, and shall flow together to the goodness of the LORD, for wheat, and for wine, and for oil, and for the young of the flock and of the herd: and their soul shall be as a watered garden; and they shall not sorrow any more at all.

Clearly many, many things happen at that time, including the bringing them from the north country and gathering them from the coasts of the earth.

Instead Israel was SCATTERED in Acts 8.

Good point! I don't know that they didn't come with "supplications" and "weeping", do you?

The not sorrowing any more is a little tougher for me to explain, but I don't know that it has to be a permanent condition. In other words, if they came back at that time, and they were obedient to God, they might well have not sorrowed any more. And especially if they had accepted the messiah.
 

Danoh

New member
My contention, which you avoided completely, was that Jeremiah 31:8 had been fulfilled already. I don't think anything you wrote contradicts that.

Lol.

Nope.

As RD has also shown, it is you...who are off.

Acts 17:11,12.
 

Danoh

New member
Good point! I don't know that they didn't come with "supplications" and "weeping", do you?

The not sorrowing any more is a little tougher for me to explain, but I don't know that it has to be a permanent condition. In other words, if they came back at that time, and they were obedient to God, they might well have not sorrowed any more. And especially if they had accepted the messiah.

The thing is obvious.

Ezekiel 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Acts 17:11, 12.
 

Derf

Well-known member
The thing is obvious.

Ezekiel 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
Acts 17:11, 12.
how do you justify using Ez 37:28 to help with this discussion?
 

Right Divider

Body part
Good point! I don't know that they didn't come with "supplications" and "weeping", do you?

The not sorrowing any more is a little tougher for me to explain, but I don't know that it has to be a permanent condition. In other words, if they came back at that time, and they were obedient to God, they might well have not sorrowed any more. And especially if they had accepted the messiah.
Read that passage with ALL of the other scripture that also talks about these future events.

Zec 12:8-11 KJV In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. (9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. (10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
 

Danoh

New member
how do you justify using Ez 37:28 to help with this discussion?

What that passage describes has yet to happen as described.

Unless you want to pull a Preterism and assert on the one hand that Jeremiah 31's Prophecy literally happened but that passage I cited in Ezekiel 37:28 "is spiritual."

Isaiah 8:20.
 

Derf

Well-known member
What that passage describes has yet to happen as described.

Unless you want to pull a Preterism and assert on the one hand that Jeremiah 31's Prophecy literally happened but that passage I cited in Ezekiel 37:28 "is spiritual."

Isaiah 8:20.

Are they talking about the same thing? You and others seem to assume such, but is such assumption warranted?
 

Derf

Well-known member
Read that passage with ALL of the other scripture that also talks about these future events.

Zec 12:8-11 KJV In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. (9) And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. (10) And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (11) In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

You're using Zechariah to interpret Jeremiah. Does Jeremiah need such help?
 

Derf

Well-known member
They all go together. No author of the Bible can be fully understood in complete isolation from all the others.

Yes, but no biblical author should be interpreted completely by looking at a different book. The immediate context is the most important.
 
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