ECT Q for those who DO believe in OSAS

[musterion]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC; it made sense because of everything Paul says happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel, combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie. Rather, my struggle - thanks to Reformed influences - was agonizing over whether I was elect or not, not whether God would ever unjustify someone he'd already justified. That idea struck me as blasphemously stupid, and still does.

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

 

[DAN P]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC; it made sense because of everything Paul says happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel, combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie. Rather, my struggle - thanks to Reformed influences - was agonizing over whether I was elect or not, not whether God would ever unjustify someone he'd already justified. That idea struck me as blasphemously stupid, and still does.

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

Hi and I grew up a Pentecostal and speaking in tongues scared me and not knowing if you could be saved bothered me as I was growing up .

Then as a 17 years aold , I attended a So Baptist church and found out that they believed in OSAS , but the Pastor never said why !

Then we installed a Pastor who was a Acts 2 Dispensationalist , and fro there I expanded to C R Stam and then Robert C Brock !!

dAN P

 

[Angel4Truth]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

yes, i used to believe it was possible to be able to walk away from God by continuing to "mess up" and not doing enough to keep myself "holy" and i used to often wonder why He didn't just wipe us all off the face of the earth again because of our sinfulness.

What changed my mind was careful study of the scriptures and the hunger and desire for the truth no matter what that meant, and His showing me through different events and people just how much i was loved in spite of myself.

The devil loves the bondage, loves to make believers think His love is not really everlasting, and in our flesh its way easier to believe the bad things and goodness knows the devil just loves that.

Praise the Lord for His faithfulness and love and mercy and grace and that He keeps us, we do nothing to earn His love and grace and can do nothing to lose it.

This book helped a lot too: Classic Christianity, by Bob George

PS I would go into more specific details, but ive already seen what people do with very personal things here.

 

[patrick jane]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC; it made sense because of everything Paul says happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel, combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie. Rather, my struggle - thanks to Reformed influences - was agonizing over whether I was elect or not, not whether God would ever unjustify someone he'd already justified. That idea struck me as blasphemously stupid, and still does.

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

We all have stories with innumerable details, once I heard/saw/read the gospel of salvation I have never and will never doubt it. However, as a kid and young man I drifted away from the Word of God, and I doubted my own salvation; it didn't make sense to me that God loves me that much after ignoring Him so long. Coming to TOL affirmed my confidence
and behold 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 KJV - and 2 Corinthians 5:17-18 KJV -

 

[journey]

I strongly believe in OSAS and have for most of my adult life. I had some doubts and confusion as a youngster, especially when I did something that I knew was wrong.

I believe that the promises of God are in full force at the moment of Salvation, and I know that God perfectly keeps all of His promises. God promises eternal life, and I believe Him. The Holy Spirit of God lives in my heart and has sealed it as a purchased possession of Jesus Christ. The bottom line is simple: I'm SAVED, SETTLED, AND SURE.

 

[glorydaz]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC; it made sense because of everything Paul says happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel, combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie. Rather, my struggle - thanks to Reformed influences - was agonizing over whether I was elect or not, not whether God would ever unjustify someone he'd already justified. That idea struck me as blasphemously stupid, and still does.

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

I've never doubted I was saved (and remember the day very well). And I've always known there was nothing I could ever do that would change that. Nothing would separate me from the love of God. Nothing. What that knowledge did was give me boldness to rebuke every fear or doubt that the enemy might bring my way, and, of course, he brings many of them. The closest I ever came to feeling defeat was when I would lose my temper and scream at my kids over something.....yeah, I did that more than once. Satan was always quick to say, "And you call yourself a Christian....you really think God overlooks that?" I would pause, and say....Yes, because He sees the Lord Jesus Christ, not me. Just acknowledging that would take away the need I felt to yell. When you know nothing is "forbidden" because all is forgiven, the "forbidden fruit" loses it's appeal.

 

[ZacharyB]

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC;
it made sense because of everything Paul says
happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel,
combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie.

If any of this includes Paul's letter to the Ephesians ...
please understand that he was writing ONLY to "faithful" saints.
Ditto for his letter to the Colossians.
Kapish?

 

[patrick jane]

If any of this includes Paul's letter to the Ephesians ...
please understand that he was writing ONLY to "faithful" saints.
Ditto for his letter to the Colossians.
Kapish?

Ephesians 1:1 KJV - Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, AND TO THE FAITHFUL IN CHRIST JESUS:

1 Corinthians 1:2,3 KJV -

We are all called to be saints Kapish ?

 

[WonderfulLordJesus]

At the outset, I learned that strong faith is about belief in and absolute trust in the Lord, never doubt, really have no experience, since being saved, with unbelief in the promises of the Lord, nor with people trying to tear down the faith of others. The many promises of the Lord that we are saved, that we have His gift of eternal life and the seal of the Spirit (I posted a thread going to 101 such scripture truths), as you learn the word of God, eternal security is simply there in scripture. And I have no idea what sort of Christian tries to refute the Lord's promises, whether a tare doing evil or somebody fearful and with doubts, somehow believing the lie: it's a dark, negative spiritual condition, which is the opposite of faith and trust in the Lord. Such people on the web also display no small amount of anger and hatred, strife, which should also tell you something.

In my experience, I've never heard Christians making claims you see on the web in any real life congregation. I feel sorry for those suffering such confusion and blindness, doubt and fear as to their salvation, if they're at all sincere and could be really saved (how can the Spirit be failing them, to lead them into truth?), but can't take seriously a word naysayers have to say, in any matter of false prophecy, for that matter.

Christianity is about faith and trust in the Lord, not doubt and fear, about knowing the Lord, and I think people would be wise to be very cognizant scripture teaching on wheat and tares, especially on the web, where anonymous evil runs loose, unchecked by any discipline of a congregation.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Yes...the first time I sinned after being saved, I had been as high as a kite for weeks....I came plummeting down to earth with a wallop.

This is the great test which I think 90% of those who think they can be lost fail miserably early on. The devil is in like a flash "you are no longer saved" and they believe him rather than believe God's word, they believe the evidence of their natural senses.

They do not run to the Lord and tell Him all, they revert to Adamic hiding and covering themselves with fig leaves. They run to the Christian bookshop and come out with an armful of "how to be holy" books....and they are on the merry-go-round.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I've never doubted I was saved (and remember the day very well). And I've always known there was nothing I could ever do that would change that. Nothing would separate me from the love of God. Nothing. What that knowledge did was give me boldness to rebuke every fear or doubt that the enemy might bring my way, and, of course, he brings many of them. The closest I ever came to feeling defeat was when I would lose my temper and scream at my kids over something.....yeah, I did that more than once. Satan was always quick to say, "And you call yourself a Christian....you really think God overlooks that?" I would pause, and say....Yes, because He sees the Lord Jesus Christ, not me. Just acknowledging that would take away the need I felt to yell. When you know nothing is "forbidden" because all is forgiven, the "forbidden fruit" loses it's appeal.

Yes that's the way, tell the devil to clear off from God's property.

THINK

If you are one of those who believe you can be lost you will NEVER, EVER stand up to the devil. You will be afraid that if you rebuke him he will one day get you back into his clutches.

Another thing is you will NEVER, EVER come boldly to the throne of grace to find the help you need, you will be terrified that the Lord will say to you "depart from Me ye cursed"

Your Christian experience will always be one of planting and plucking up, weakly plants, you'll never put your roots down deep into the rich soil of God's grace. You will never grow strong

 

[Totton Linnet]

I strongly believe in OSAS and have for most of my adult life. I had some doubts and confusion as a youngster, especially when I did something that I knew was wrong.

I believe that the promises of God are in full force at the moment of Salvation, and I know that God perfectly keeps all of His promises. God promises eternal life, and I believe Him. The Holy Spirit of God lives in my heart and has sealed it as a purchased possession of Jesus Christ. The bottom line is simple: I'm SAVED, SETTLED, AND SURE.

Absolutely...SAVED, SETTLED and SURE. these probationary ones can never say that.

 

[jamie]

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment do you suppose will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:26-29 NKJV)​

 

[oatmeal]

Was there ever a time that you, as a religious person or as a saved person, did not believe you have been given unconditional eternal safety in Christ? If so, what was it that changed your mind? How did you come to believe it now?

For me, I never questioned the idea of UESIC; it made sense because of everything Paul says happens to the believer upon believing the Gospel, combined with the ultimate fact that God does not lie. Rather, my struggle - thanks to Reformed influences - was agonizing over whether I was elect or not, not whether God would ever unjustify someone he'd already justified. That idea struck me as blasphemously stupid, and still does.

Thanks in advance for any stories you care to share.

That is a good observation, why would God unjustify someone He paid such a high price to justify?

The justification is done, it cannot be improved upon, all we can do is believe it by living it. We need no longer have any doubts about our having eternal life. And though we err at times, the justification is still in effect because God says so.

Romans 5:1

 

[musterion]

That is a good observation, why would God unjustify someone He paid such a high price to justify?

The justification is done, it cannot be improved upon, all we can do is believe it by living it. We need no longer have any doubts about our having eternal life. And though we err at times, the justification is still in effect because God says so.

Romans 5:1

True...if one has believes the only saving Gospel of grace, which excludes all merit and work.

 

[musterion]

For UESIC to be false -- for received salvation to be losable -- God's justification of the believer has to be able to be cancelled and undone.

That would mean there is some sin condition or circumstance that was not dealt with and put away at the cross. Such would need to remain for there to be some risk of being unjustified by it.

That means at least one sin for each of us went unforgiven and unforgivable, and remains so until death.

That means a standard of law still hangs over each and every believer, waiting and watching to see if we break it, ready to condemn us if we do.

That means there really is no true forgiveness, no grace and peace. Only law and fear.

That means God is a liar and the Bible cannot be trusted.

And many here on TOL seem to prefer it that way.

 

[patrick jane]

For UESIC to be false -- for received salvation to be losable -- God's justification of the believer has to be able to be cancelled and undone.

That would mean there is some sin condition or circumstance that had not been dealt with and put away at the cross. Such would need to remain for there to be some risk of being unjustified by it.

That means at least one sin for each of us went unforgiven and unforgivable, and remains so until death.

That means a standard of law still hangs over the believer, waiting and watching to see if he breaks it..

That means there really is no grace and peace, only law and fear.

That means God is a liar and the Bible cannot be trusted.

And many here on TOL seem to prefer it that way.

Exactly. When you put it like that it shows how ludicrous it is to believe salvation can be lost due to something we do. God can do anything. cancelling any part of The Son's Work on the Cross isn't one of them.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

3 Then [Jesus] told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed.
4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.
5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow.
6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.
7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.
8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop – a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.
9 He who has ears, let him hear.”
Matthew 13:3-9

18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means:
19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy.
21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
23 But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” [NIV]
Matthew 13:18-23

Check your soil.

 

[jamie]

Christ divorced Israel because of her infidelity. Has he changed?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Christ divorced Israel because of her infidelity. Has he changed?

God has not changed for if the NT believer does the same things which Judas did then they also will be as Judas became.

or we can find someone slightly different which is very common this day--

Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Act 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

Notice that this Simon did not repent.

LA