Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

[Letsargue]

I've been ignoring you because you don't seem to have much but the ability to assert things, Paul. I can go anywhere and get an 'uh uh.' They don't count for much to me. Your handle is 'Letsargue' but your aren't arguing, you are asserting. In order to argue, you have to take my points one at a time and show them wrong. I'm really not a fan of 'you assert' then "I assert' back. God can do whatever is possible and rewriting the past is more than... Most OVer's agree. Even GodRulz and Muz agree. They simply think He "didn't" not that He can't. They say He can so this is not novel on my part. Not at all.

If you want to use the word “Assert”, fine. I’ll use it also.

God “asserted” all things in the carnal, for the Carnal understanding; to bring the Carnal to the Spiritual. – However, - all I do, - is take God’s Carnal “assertions”, and “assert” them in the Spiritual. - That’s (( All I Do )), nothing else!! – If you all had a Spiritual mind, not just a carnal mind, or double minded, you could See That, - But!!

Paul – 072613

 

[Lighthouse]

You missed the point. He 'already changed (or rather guided/made the past He desires to exist)' is correct.
However, If God created us, He can and easily manilpulate the universe to reflect a different existence. Open Theism is unintelligible on this particular, sorry, not logical at all. You'd say that the alternate past still 'existed' but I (and many others with me) am saying "nope." Pure assertion. As such, we are simply arguing to argue. There is no point in an assertion. It is my strong belief if you erase something as if it never existed and there is absolutely no way to prove it existed, then it doesn't exist, period. So rather, "God is completely able to change the past," against your weak assertion. Anybody that reads in their Bibles "God Almighty" (Omnipotent) and believes it will disagree with your "asserting for no other reason than to support a preconceived (erroneaus) notion/theology)."

If you believe this for any other reason, please let me know. I find it completely untenuable and not based on any kind of logic but to support an erroneaus preconception. It is, imo, against the clear teaching of Scripture. "Almighty" means able to do all things doable (not that I, a mere human could limit Him by my or your limited conceptions), and changing the past is certainly, unequivocably, doable by sheer power.

You're an idiot.

 

[Lon]

If you want to use the word “Assert”, fine. I’ll use it also.

God “asserted” all things in the carnal, for the Carnal understanding; to bring the Carnal to the Spiritual. – However, - all I do, - is take God’s Carnal “assertions”, and “assert” them in the Spiritual. - That’s (( All I Do )), nothing else!! – If you all had a Spiritual mind, not just a carnal mind, or double minded, you could See That, - But!!

Paul – 072613

More of 'your' assertion, Paul. Just because 'you' say it doesn't mean a thing to me. I can read my Bible on my own.

 

[Lon]

You're an idiot.

I don't even believe you believe that. Just say "I'm done" or something.
There was no way we were going to see eye-to-eye on this anyway, I'm just trying to be a good sounding board for consideration of why we believe God must be able to traverse time and why we believe it a physical property.
I really haven't heard many people other than open theists try to disclaim this as a truth. We can't rewrite scientific observations just to suit our theology preference. That is trying to mold truth to us, rather than being molded by truth.

-Lon

 

[Letsargue]

More of 'your' assertion, Paul. Just because 'you' say it doesn't mean a thing to me. I can read my Bible on my own.

Why of course not; neither what Christ says either!!

((( No you can’t )))!!! – Just because you can ( Read Words ) Does not mean that you can Read the Truth / Christ. - One (( Must )) read Christ’s “Mind” that “One HAS”, before he can See the Spirit he hears!!! ---- ( 1 Timothy 4:13 KJV ) – 13- “(( Till I come )), ( give (( “Attendance” )) to reading ) , to ( exhortation, to doctrine ). 14- Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee ((((( by prophecy ))))), with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery”. ---///--- ( Guess what “Attendance” means ) – Genius????!!! --- “Attendance” means to ( Put yourself “IN IT” ); not just Talk with your mouth about anything you choose. – It / He is either IN You and You IN HIM / It, or one is a FOOL!!! – One ((( “Attends” ))) to the Hearing / Seeing the Truth / Christ; “Attend”, not just then, but (( Always )) while un-attending for anything!!! – Read the Book for the (( understanding )) of It / Him!! --- Words mean things, not ( Nothing )!!!

Paul – 072713

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't even believe you believe that. Just say "I'm done" or something.
There was no way we were going to see eye-to-eye on this anyway, I'm just trying to be a good sounding board for consideration of why we believe God must be able to traverse time and why we believe it a physical property.
I really haven't heard many people other than open theists try to disclaim this as a truth. We can't rewrite scientific observations just to suit our theology preference. That is trying to mold truth to us, rather than being molded by truth.

-Lon

Nope. I fully believe it. You're too stupid to see reason and logic.

 

[godrulz]

Nope. I fully believe it. You're too stupid to see reason and logic.

Lon may not get 'it', whatever 'it' is, but he does not appear to be stupid. You are not infallible either.

 

[xAvarice]

Can someone give me a summary?

 

[godrulz]

Can someone give me a summary?

There are various views of time/eternity (http://www.amazon.com/God-Time-Views-Paul-Helm/dp/0830815511 )

The traditional view influenced by Plato and Augustine (and held by C.S. Lewis, etc.) is that God is timeless. He is eternal now, above time. This is B theory of time (eternalism).

The alternate A theory of time (presentism) says God experiences endless time, not timelessness. Time is not a created thing, but a concept of duration, sequence, succession (necessary for any personal being to think, act, feel).

The latter view is more biblical, coherent (Rev. 1:4; Ps. 102:27; Ps. 90:2, Revelation where time is mentioned several times in heaven, etc.). It also has implications on foreknowledge, etc.

 

[Letsargue]

There are various views of time/eternity (http://www.amazon.com/God-Time-Views-Paul-Helm/dp/0830815511 )

The traditional view influenced by Plato and Augustine (and held by C.S. Lewis, etc.) is that God is timeless. He is eternal now, above time. This is B theory of time (eternalism).

The alternate A theory of time (presentism) says God experiences endless time, not timelessness. Time is not a created thing, but a concept of duration, sequence, succession (necessary for any personal being to think, act, feel).

The latter view is more biblical, coherent (Rev. 1:4; Ps. 102:27; Ps. 90:2, Revelation where time is mentioned several times in heaven, etc.). It also has implications on foreknowledge, etc.

Can’t any of you Geniuses just simply answer a question without all this beating around the burning bush??? – A bunch of real geniuses; -- full of good garbage, and Knows Nothing of the Truth!!!

Paul – 072913

 

[godrulz]

Timeless or endless time? Better?

 

[Aimiel]

If God is subject to time, He isn't God... He is a secondary god to time. God knows what will happen before it happens... ad infinitum.

 

[Lon]

Nope. I fully believe it. You're too stupid to see reason and logic.

Can’t any of you Geniuses just simply answer a question without all this beating around the burning bush??? – A bunch of real geniuses; -- full of good garbage, and Knows Nothing of the Truth!!!

Paul – 072913

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean we aren't discussing matters of God. Some people can swim, and some have to wade no further than their chests. God made both - don't make hasty assumptions.

Not being able to explain quantum physics to you, does not mean you are smarter than a rocket scientist - just the opposite (a few others need to learn this truth too so you are in good company and it's a fantastic truth to get under one's belt). Ignorance is not bliss nor a license to think you are brilliant.

 

[godrulz]

If God is subject to time, He isn't God... He is a secondary god to time. God knows what will happen before it happens... ad infinitum.

Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.

 

[Letsargue]

Timeless or endless time? Better?

Both, Either, and Neither, at the same Time.

Paul -- 073013

 

[Letsargue]

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean we aren't discussing matters of God. Some people can swim, and some have to wade no further than their chests. God made both - don't make hasty assumptions.

Not being able to explain quantum physics to you, does not mean you are smarter than a rocket scientist - just the opposite (a few others need to learn this truth too so you are in good company and it's a fantastic truth to get under one's belt). Ignorance is not bliss nor a license to think you are brilliant.

That’s exactly what a Fool will ( DO ). - Not state anything to show error, but ( Try ) to LOOK Smart before other Fools!!! – Well Done, Genius!!!!

Paul – 073013

 

[Letsargue]

Lon may not get 'it', whatever 'it' is, but he does not appear to be stupid. You are not infallible either.

Who, What, How, did anything Say That??? - Where did that Knowledge come from??

Hey!!! - It's the Doctrine that Fools teach, not the Fool!!!, Who are YOU??? -- Truth, or Lies??

Paul -- 073013

 

[Aimiel]

Wrong assumptions lead to wrong conclusions.

Agreed. I'm not assuming anything wrong that I've seen proof for.

 

[Lighthouse]

Can someone give me a summary?

Of what?

If God is subject to time, He isn't God... He is a secondary god to time. God knows what will happen before it happens... ad infinitum.

Or maybe rather time is an attribute of God and thus just as God cannot defy love He cannot defy time.

Just because you don't get it doesn't mean we aren't discussing matters of God. Some people can swim, and some have to wade no further than their chests. God made both - don't make hasty assumptions.

Not being able to explain quantum physics to you, does not mean you are smarter than a rocket scientist - just the opposite (a few others need to learn this truth too so you are in good company and it's a fantastic truth to get under one's belt). Ignorance is not bliss nor a license to think you are brilliant.

To whom was this directed? You quoted two people and did not indicate if your response was to be directed at one, both or if it should be separated.

 

[Aimiel]

Or maybe rather time is an attribute of God and thus just as God cannot defy love He cannot defy time.

It seems that time is created, just as everything else there is was created. I don't know that time is an 'attribute' of God, but I don't believe that time has always been or God never would have reached the moment that He started creation, since time would go back eternally. It's a logical impossibility.