Proof from the Bible that God is In Time
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Shasta
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No LOGIC shows precisely the opposite. Time had to begin at the moment of creation. A timeline prior to creation would have had no beginning. Getting to the moment of creation from any point on an infinite line would have required an infinite amount of time. Zeno's paradox shows that infinite regressive time is inherently irrational.
Time as "change" can be observed in the universe God made because everything is in motion. There was no motion before anything existed. In what respect could any changes be occurring? Is it God Himself who was sequentially changing and evolving? Why would He need to change. What would have caused the changes? Had this been going on forever.
Where are your definitions from? I can find sources in conservative, evangelical encyclopedias that are not Open Theist that define eternity as endless time, not timelessness. There is great debate in the literature about A vs B theory of time, timeless vs endless duration, etc. You have simply cherry picked a source that holds the traditional view, but does not defend it nor interact with those with strong arguments against it.
Good Lord. You look it up this time. You're some sort of spin doctor.
Endless time is a synonym for eternity.
Timeless - Timeless means the quality of being eternal, ageless, immortal, or not affected by time. Anachronisms can be regarded as timeless or out of time.
Timeless Wiki
No thanks. That's what got you so screwed up.
Besides when the plain truth makes sense it doesn't need to be turned into anything else.
When the plain sense makes good sense seek no other sense.
Aimiel
Well-known member
Try Dictionary.com:
e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4. Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
... or TheFreeDictionary.com:
e·ter·nal (-tûrnl)
adj.
1. Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. See Synonyms at infinite.
2. Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
3. Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
4. Seemingly endless; interminable. See Synonyms at ageless, continual.
5. Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife.
n.
1. Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless.
2. Eternal God. Used with the.
From Wikipedia:
"Theists say that God is eternally existent. How this is understood depends on which definition of eternity is used. On one hand, God may exist in eternity, a timeless existence where categories of past, present, and future just do not apply. On the other hand, God will exist for or through eternity, or at all times, having already existed for an infinite amount of time and continuing to exist for an infinite amount of time. One other definition states that God exists outside the human concept of time, but also inside of time. The reasoning for this definition is that if God did not exist both outside time and inside time, God would not be able to interact with humans."
It isn't that we are capable of knowing or understanding God, since He's decided to hide Himself behind His Mystery; but He has chosen for us to debate these things to keep us interested in, talking about and calling upon Him.
e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl] Show IPA
adjective
1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal): eternal life.
2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless: eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3. enduring; immutable: eternal principles.
4. Metaphysics . existing outside all relations of time; not subject to change.
... or TheFreeDictionary.com:
e·ter·nal (-tûrnl)
adj.
1. Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time. See Synonyms at infinite.
2. Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
3. Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
4. Seemingly endless; interminable. See Synonyms at ageless, continual.
5. Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife.
n.
1. Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless.
2. Eternal God. Used with the.
From Wikipedia:
"Theists say that God is eternally existent. How this is understood depends on which definition of eternity is used. On one hand, God may exist in eternity, a timeless existence where categories of past, present, and future just do not apply. On the other hand, God will exist for or through eternity, or at all times, having already existed for an infinite amount of time and continuing to exist for an infinite amount of time. One other definition states that God exists outside the human concept of time, but also inside of time. The reasoning for this definition is that if God did not exist both outside time and inside time, God would not be able to interact with humans."
It isn't that we are capable of knowing or understanding God, since He's decided to hide Himself behind His Mystery; but He has chosen for us to debate these things to keep us interested in, talking about and calling upon Him.
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Romans 1:19-21
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Timelessness is Platonic, philosophical, Augustinian. You cannot defend it logically nor from Scripture. Endless time is seen on every page of Scripture and in common sense in relation to God.
Yes, God is eternal, without beginning and without end, uncreated. This does not mean He is timeless (nonsensical if He is personal).
http://www.revivaltheology.net/9_openness/eternity.html
Dumbed down for you guys...
Not the issue, you twit!This is fun!Do a word search at Biblegateway. Here is what I found that the Bible says God is eternal.
I don't deny that God is eternal. I deny that eternal means what you claim, and I submit that you cannot find a single verse in the Bible that shows eternal to mean what you claim.
God had no beginning, and yet He experienced duration.
And all Zeno did was show a lack of understanding regarding eternity.
And you have shown ignorance in your idea that God would have to get to the moment of creation. At some point along the infinite line He created. Simple as that.
God is living, He moved and moves.
All you need to read and know is the Bible.
All of this open theism crap is all over the internet as a false teaching. I know it's false just by its title...:jawdrop:
Ignorant fool.
How about you let us know when you have some actual Scripture that shows the open view to be false...
Ignorant fool.
How about you let us know when you have some actual Scripture that shows the open view to be false...
I already did you dimwit.
No you haven't. At most you've argued from silence.
2 Timothy 4:3
Trinity is not in the Bible, so is it a false teaching? The view is about the Openness of creation, not the openness of God. It is saying the future is not fully fixed (which is how you also live even if you are a Calvinist).
The Bible does not address every area of knowledge. The Bible does not teach your view of time/eternity and can be used for Open Theism support and defeat of unbiblical Calvinism. The problem is your paradigm, not just that the proof texts don't really support you.
This verse has nothing to do with legit doctrinal debates among equally capable, godly believers. It could contrast New Age vs Christianity, but cannot be applied to Calvinism vs Arminianism vs Molinism vs Open Theism.
Are you a hyper-fundamentalist, or what?
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