Theology Club: Predestination and freedom

[Totton Linnet]

You seemed to have forgotten that the path is wide that leads to destruction. If anyone is to be judged by their works, they have already joined those on the wide path. You've attempted to recreate God as you want Him to be, not who He is. He will have mercy on whom He elects to have mercy on. Nothing you can do can change that.

*
I don't believe anything that I cannot SEE in scripture, if somebody shows me I am wrong from scripture I will [to the best of my ability] bow before scripture.

You did add in some words there "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Paul draws his doctrine of ELECTION from Jacob and Esau, now I have to think, Esau was passed over before either had done good or evil, while still in the womb and the election passed to Jacob.

's that mean Esau was damned? he was still the genuine seed of Isaac and Abraham. I don't think you can prove Esau was damned.

This scripture concerning the narrow road and the broad does present me with difficulties I admit it. I balance it with other scriptures which say God's house [which is not small] is going to be FILLED, MANY will come from the east and from the west and sit at table with Abe, Ike and Jake. MANY have already come and they are STILL coming and they will continue to come until the end.

So I can balance these many with the few...perfectly legit, no twisting.

Peter had asked "Lord will only a few be saved?" and Jesus kindly but firmly to pay mind to his own life and walk. YOU seek to enter in at the straight gate for many will seek to enter and will not enter. YOU walk the narrow road....few there be that find it.

But Peter did find it, John Wesley found it. What did they do ? they went out into the highways and the byways and compelled those they found therein to come in.

"Lord will only few be saved?" Not if christians mind what they are about.

Is that stretching it a little? I don't think so, I will NEVER believe the devil is going to be in the majority, he wasn't in heaven when he rebelled, he took just a third with him.

I BELIEVE in election, I BELIEVE in predestiny but reformed christians do not handle certain parables very well in my opinion. Such as the talents or the wise and foolish maidens or the sheep and goats with their rewards for good works or punishment for evil.

It is not that I believe in works salvation, I don't...but I believe in the wider mercy.

If you believe as I do in the 1,000 year reign of Christ in glory then you must see that the Great White Throne judgement [which must correspond with the Sheep and Goats comes after, long after the saints have been gathered to the Lord [so shall they ever be with Him] and after they have reigned with Him during a thousand years. There is NO WAY that either the sheep or the goats can be the church.

And yet the sheep have a reward for good works.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

*
I don't believe anything that I cannot SEE in scripture, if somebody shows me I am wrong from scripture I will [to the best of my ability] bow before scripture.

You did add in some words there "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Paul draws his doctrine of ELECTION from Jacob and Esau, now I have to think, Esau was passed over before either had done good or evil, while still in the womb and the election passed to Jacob.

's that mean Esau was damned? he was still the genuine seed of Isaac and Abraham. I don't think you can prove Esau was damned.

This scripture concerning the narrow road and the broad does present me with difficulties I admit it. I balance it with other scriptures which say God's house [which is not small] is going to be FILLED, MANY will come from the east and from the west and sit at table with Abe, Ike and Jake. MANY have already come and they are STILL coming and they will continue to come until the end.

So I can balance these many with the few...perfectly legit, no twisting.

Peter had asked "Lord will only a few be saved?" and Jesus kindly but firmly to pay mind to his own life and walk. YOU seek to enter in at the straight gate for many will seek to enter and will not enter. YOU walk the narrow road....few there be that find it.

But Peter did find it, John Wesley found it. What did they do ? they went out into the highways and the byways and compelled those they found therein to come in.

"Lord will only few be saved?" Not if christians mind what they are about.

Is that stretching it a little? I don't think so, I will NEVER believe the devil is going to be in the majority, he wasn't in heaven when he rebelled, he took just a third with him.

I BELIEVE in election, I BELIEVE in predestiny but reformed christians do not handle certain parables very well in my opinion. Such as the talents or the wise and foolish maidens or the sheep and goats with their rewards for good works or punishment for evil.

It is not that I believe in works salvation, I don't...but I believe in the wider mercy.

If you believe as I do in the 1,000 year reign of Christ in glory then you must see that the Great White Throne judgement [which must correspond with the Sheep and Goats comes after, long after the saints have been gathered to the Lord [so shall they ever be with Him] and after they have reigned with Him during a thousand years. There is NO WAY that either the sheep or the goats can be the church.

And yet the sheep have a reward for good works.

Wider mercy is not biblical.

Mat_19:24 "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Mar_10:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Luk_18:25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Mat_7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Mat_7:14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Luk_13:24 "Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. [NASB]

Sorry for bursting your bubble.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Wider mercy is not biblical.

Mat_19:24"Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Mar_10:25"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Luk_18:25"For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Mat_7:13"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
Mat_7:14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Luk_13:24"Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.[NASB]

Sorry for bursting your bubble.

If you want to see but a few shrivelled souls saved that is for you, I choose to see a vast multitude which no man could number, I choose to see MANY from the east and from the west. I choose to see God's house [which is not small] FULL.

Christians have forgotten that for more than 1,000 years their were truths in the bible which no-one understood.

 

[beloved57]

If you want to see but a few shrivelled souls saved that is for you, I choose to see a vast multitude which no man could number, I choose to see MANY from the east and from the west. I choose to see God's house [which is not small] FULL.

Christians have forgotten that for more than 1,000 years their were truths in the bible which no-one understood.

Don't matter how many are saved finally, it is still relatively small or few compared to the lost !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[beloved57]

*
I don't believe anything that I cannot SEE in scripture, if somebody shows me I am wrong from scripture I will [to the best of my ability] bow before scripture.

You did add in some words there "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy"

Paul draws his doctrine of ELECTION from Jacob and Esau, now I have to think, Esau was passed over before either had done good or evil, while still in the womb and the election passed to Jacob.

's that mean Esau was damned? he was still the genuine seed of Isaac and Abraham. I don't think you can prove Esau was damned.

This scripture concerning the narrow road and the broad does present me with difficulties I admit it. I balance it with other scriptures which say God's house [which is not small] is going to be FILLED, MANY will come from the east and from the west and sit at table with Abe, Ike and Jake. MANY have already come and they are STILL coming and they will continue to come until the end.

So I can balance these many with the few...perfectly legit, no twisting.

Peter had asked "Lord will only a few be saved?" and Jesus kindly but firmly to pay mind to his own life and walk. YOU seek to enter in at the straight gate for many will seek to enter and will not enter. YOU walk the narrow road....few there be that find it.

But Peter did find it, John Wesley found it. What did they do ? they went out into the highways and the byways and compelled those they found therein to come in.

"Lord will only few be saved?" Not if christians mind what they are about.

Is that stretching it a little? I don't think so, I will NEVER believe the devil is going to be in the majority, he wasn't in heaven when he rebelled, he took just a third with him.

I BELIEVE in election, I BELIEVE in predestiny but reformed christians do not handle certain parables very well in my opinion. Such as the talents or the wise and foolish maidens or the sheep and goats with their rewards for good works or punishment for evil.

It is not that I believe in works salvation, I don't...but I believe in the wider mercy.

If you believe as I do in the 1,000 year reign of Christ in glory then you must see that the Great White Throne judgement [which must correspond with the Sheep and Goats comes after, long after the saints have been gathered to the Lord [so shall they ever be with Him] and after they have reigned with Him during a thousand years. There is NO WAY that either the sheep or the goats can be the church.

And yet the sheep have a reward for good works.

John Wesley didn't even believe the Gospel, let alone preach it, so all his converts from his false gospel are believing a lie !

Posted from the TOL App!

 

[Totton Linnet]

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4013478

 

[intojoy]

We have heard that because God predestined us this makes us robots, I say it sets us gloriously FREE.

When God first created man He did not come and say please, He did not curtsy, He did not even enter into negotiations. That's what I love about God, He goes right ahead and does what He wants to.

The golden key to enjoying God is TRUST, believing that He really does know best, what is best for us. He knows that better than we know it ourselves.

Because God did not curtsy or enter into negotiations with us, He did not ask anybody how many toes they would like does not and has not made any man a robot.

If God did not feel constrained in any way to seek our permission or approval when He of His free sovereign grace decided to grant us natural life, what in the world makes you to imagine that He would need seek our permission or approval when He grants by free sovereign grace spiritual life?

The world is locked up in freewill which is not free at all but in bondage to sin and death. Christ sets us FREE from that...it is exactly that which was leading us ever forward to death, and judgement.

Alas! the vast majority of the church having been SET FREE from what? from themselves [freewill which is bondage] and free from devil. Very soon after take back unto themselves the delusion [for so it is] of freewill.

THAT is what is wrong with the church. It is backsliding. We had submitted to the Lord an to seeking HIS WILL, but now we fallen back again to that which got us into trouble in the first place. [I assure that this is the
very cause of a great deal of the sorrows and trials and hardships that christians are in]
God's will for us is PERFECT FREEDOM for then we are the very person we are created to be. And we will be like Jesus, for that is what we are predestined to be.

*

Good but incomplete

 

[Arsenios]

Calvinism is nothing more than the Bible.

Period.

God is more than the Bible...

Your Salvation by Grace through the Faith of Jesus Christ which He gave to His Apostles is not of yourself - This Salvation is the Gift of God...

The Kingdom of Heaven is here and now, and the strong are taking it by force...

If any is willing, after Me to be following, let him first deny himself, then take up his own cross and be following Me...

The Christian Faith is a God-quest...

Or it is nothing...

Arsenios