Praying football coach creates a mess

[ok doser]

That's not what the school district said. According to them, he's still on paid time...

with his expected duties to be what?

getting the kids off the field, through the locker room and home?

and when the kids decide to join his brother praying in the center of the field, you think he should stand on the sidelines?

 

[Jose Fly]

Here are two posts that show from this thread quoting the news that he was told he is not allowed to show any visible sign that he is a Christian:

That's likely going too far.

 

[Jose Fly]

with his expected duties to be what?

Whatever his employer says....you know, like everyone else in the world. :duh:

and when the kids decide to join his brother praying in the center of the field, you think he should stand on the sidelines?

Yep.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That's likely going too far.

Yes, and it gives a lot of fuel for his lawsuit against the school for discrimination.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Whatever his employer says....you know, like everyone else in the world. :duh:

And it is clearly against the law for his employer to say he cannot freely exercise his religion.

 

[ok doser]

my high school marching band used to play the hallelujah chorus from the stands when we scored a touchdown

in your world, any school district employee, from the custodial staff to the district superintedant, should be fired for even smiling when that was playing

 

[Jose Fly]

And it is clearly against the law for his employer to say he cannot freely exercise his religion.

Nope. There is plenty of case law on this. It'll be fun updating this thread as this works its way through the courts.

 

[ok doser]

Whatever his employer says....you know, like everyone else in the world. :duh:

his employer said it was ok for him to be doing what he was doing, for years

Yep.

life's not like that jo :nono:

trying to force people to do stuff like that is just going to get you disliked and probably hurt

not from the coach, but from people who support the coach

but you're not brave enough to go try to stop it in person, are you?

 

[ok doser]

Nope. There is plenty of case law on this. It'll be fun updating this thread as this works its way through the courts.

so you can troll the site some more?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nope. There is plenty of case law on this. It'll be fun updating this thread as this works its way through the courts.

There is a difference between case law and law.

In the actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) the coach is permitted to freely exercise his religion, the school is prohibited from discriminating against him because of his religion, and there are no laws that actually state that the coach cannot pray in school.

Any case law that is not based on actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) comes from a dereliction of duty on the part of the judges that made that case law.

 

[gcthomas]

There is a difference between case law and law.

In the actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) the coach is permitted to freely exercise his religion, the school is prohibited from discriminating against him because of his religion, and there are no laws that actually state that the coach cannot pray in school.

Any case law that is not based on actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) comes from a dereliction of duty on the part of the judges that made that case law.

It is only case law that allows weapons to be carried apart from organised militias. How many NRA members are part of a militia?

Case law is the history of how laws are interpreted by senior courts. And it is the courts that are set up by law to interpret the law.

Who else would you have interpreting laws if you don't approve of courts doing it?

 

[Jose Fly]

his employer said it was ok for him to be doing what he was doing, for years

No they didn't. He's been suspended.

trying to force people to do stuff like that is just going to get you disliked and probably hurt

not from the coach, but from people who support the coach

but you're not brave enough to go try to stop it in person, are you?

And now we see why students and families who file the complaints try and remain anonymous. Those loving Christians are prone to violence.

 

[Jose Fly]

There is a difference between case law and law.

In the actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) the coach is permitted to freely exercise his religion, the school is prohibited from discriminating against him because of his religion, and there are no laws that actually state that the coach cannot pray in school.

Any case law that is not based on actual law (statutes enacted by legislators) comes from a dereliction of duty on the part of the judges that made that case law.

I'm sure that's what you believe, but as this works its way through the courts you'll see it go differently.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It is only case law that allows weapons to be carried apart from organised militias.

It is actual law that states," the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Historically (at the time the Constitution was written) militias were formed from the armed citizens of the state.
Without the armed citizens, a militia can not be formed.
Therefore, the right to keep and bear arms precedes the forming of an organized militia.

Who else would you have interpreting laws if you don't approve of courts doing it?

I want the courts to stop being derelict in their duty and actually read the applicable statutes when deciding a case.

Case law is not supposed to overrule reading the actual statutes, as is currently being done, it is supposed to merely be a guide as to why previous decisions were made.

In all too many cases the case law is not examined for why the previous decision was made to verify that a similar decision could be made in the current case, but is applied blindly without actually looking at the merits of the previous decision and the actual statues that apply at the current time.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'm sure that's what you believe, but as this works its way through the courts you'll see it go differently.

You seem to be claiming that the courts are so corrupt that they will fail to apply the law according to the intents of the legislators.

I suspect that is a fair assessment of our current court system.

 

[ok doser]

No they didn't.

they weren't aware that he'd been doing it for years?

And now we see why students and families who file the complaints try and remain anonymous.

because they're cowards who want to control others from the safety of their anonymity

Those loving Christians are prone to violence.

not sure where you went to school, but if someone had tried to pull this kind of crap in my hometown, the football team - Christians or not - would have stood up for the coach - and any whiny atheists trying to force their ideas on us in person would have gotten a good beating

 

[Town Heretic]

Or maybe it's following the law.

Maybe the letter of the law is subsuming the spirit. You can always give the man driving a little too fast while taking his wife to the emergency room a ticket, or you can give him an escort.

And this coach going out to the middle of the field to pray seems very much an attempt to be seen.

Goes back to motivation. Is he bearing witness or inviting praise and adulation? He's the only one who can really know, though in general it isn't that hard to tell if you're up close and have any real exposure to him. From our distance we can only give benefit of the doubt or withhold it.

Otherwise, why not just lower his head on the sideline and do a silent prayer? Why the need to go out to the middle of the field, if not to be seen?

Witness means being seen, but not to self glorify. So that's the question, is it about his faith or is it about him? The people he lives and works among are in a much better position to have that answer.

And that captures why this is illegal. School employees are not supposed to be "witnessing" while at work.

Sorry, but I think you're missing the point of the law in your zeal for a letter that suits you. He isn't pigeonholing anyone. This isn't a captive audience and there doesn't appear to be any negative consequence among his players for deciding they'd rather not.

 

[ok doser]

You seem to be claiming that the courts are so corrupt that they will fail to apply the law according to the intents of the legislators.

I suspect that is a fair assessment of our current court system.

:thumb:


not surprising that a dopey atheist would stand up for a corrupt justice system

 

[Jose Fly]

You seem to be claiming that the courts are so corrupt that they will fail to apply the law according to the intents of the legislators.

I suspect that is a fair assessment of our current court system.

I'm sure that's what you'll tell yourself as this coach keeps losing in the courts. :yawn:

 

[Jose Fly]

they weren't aware that he'd been doing it for years?

I dunno. That's irrelevant to the legal question though.

because they're cowards who want to control others from the safety of their anonymity

not sure where you went to school, but if someone had tried to pull this kind of crap in my hometown, the football team - Christians or not - would have stood up for the coach - and any whiny atheists trying to force their ideas on us in person would have gotten a good beating

Thanks for illustrating my point so well. :up: