Praying football coach creates a mess

[genuineoriginal]

Look, I know you fundamentalists think things like this should be allowed (as long as it's Christianity the government is promoting)

Isn't it funny how you want to stop Christians from praying but seem to have no problem at all with Muslims praying?

 

[Jose Fly]

Are you claiming that a Christian cannot pray at any time they are employed?

No.

Christians are commanded to pray continually in the Bible.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 17 Pray without ceasing.​

You're also told by Jesus to not pray publicly.

Matthew 6:5-8 "“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."​

Isn't it funny how you want to stop Christians from praying but seem to have no problem at all with Muslims praying?

What in the world are you talking about? :idunno:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Nah, he was on the payroll. He has to play by their rules.

Tell the Muslims that want to pray to Mecca 5 times a day that they can't pray because they have to play by the government's rules.

 

[Quetzal]

Isn't it funny how you want to stop Christians from praying but seem to have no problem at all with Muslims praying?

Did he say that? Must have missed it.

 

[Quetzal]

Tell the Muslims that want to pray to Mecca 5 times a day that they can't pray because they have to play by the government's rules.

First, are they employees of the state? Second, it goes back to the ambiguous definition of what "promoting" is.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Because it's not a criterion for the act to be illegal. In Engel v Vitale, the Supreme Court held that when a school official promotes a religion while on duty, that gives students the impression that the religion is the "officially approved religion" of the school, which puts "indirect coercive pressure" on the students to conform.

In the OP, the coach is not promoting a religion, he is practicing his religion, an activity protected by the first amendment's free exercise clause.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Seriously? A person being paid by government funds, acting in his capacity as a government employee, and on work time isn't a representative of the government? How does that work? :idunno:

The coaches are government employees and need to stay out of it. It's not that hard to do.

It appears that your agenda is to force Christians out of government employment, presumably so Christian values can be outlawed.
The First Amendment was written to prevent this form of outlawing Christian values.

 

[ok doser]

That must be why he focuses on me so much.

i tend to respond to people who hold positions they can't support, positions based on faulty logic or emotion or weak reasoning, like you or purex or town or granite or zoo or anna or aikey or traci etc.

when they get frustrated having their errors pointed out to them, they stop responding to me

i don't ever expect to change their minds or positions - that just doesn't happen here

so i'm just as happy to point out their faulty argumentation whether they respond to me or not :idunno:

 

[ok doser]

Why should anyone give him the time of day? He's a protected troll who damages the forum no matter what username he posts under. He degrades conversation, derails discussion, stalks posters, calls murdered students cowards - and yet you keep letting him come back.

:baby:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Did he say that? Must have missed it.

You miss a lot.

 

[Quetzal]

You miss a lot.

You making quite a few assumptions, many of which I doubt you can support. But back to the topic, I do not believe any religion should be promoted over another. Islam included.

 

[Jose Fly]

It appears that your agenda is to force Christians out of government employment, presumably so Christian values can be outlawed.
The First Amendment was written to prevent this form of outlawing Christian values.

Thanks for your input.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I do not believe any religion should be promoted over another. Islam included.

The OP is about the attempt by the FFRF to suppress the free exercise of religion, not about the promotion of any religion.

 

[ok doser]

Because it's not a criterion for the act to be illegal. In Engel v Vitale, the Supreme Court held that when a school official promotes a religion while on duty, that gives students the impression that the religion is the "officially approved religion" of the school, which puts "indirect coercive pressure" on the students to conform.

yes, unfortunately that's the way the morons on the supreme court ruled and that's their "reasoning"

it is poor reasoning

and it begs the question of the definition of "promoting" and its relation to "establishing"

there's nothing in the constitution about "promoting", in fact many of the founding fathers wrote about how the government they created would only be successful in a country that valued Christian morality

Tell the Muslims that want to pray to Mecca 5 times a day that they can't pray because they have to play by the government's rules.

:thumb:

In the OP, the coach is not promoting a religion, he is practicing his religion, an activity protected by the first amendment's free exercise clause.

:thumb:

It appears that your agenda is to force Christians out of government employment, presumably so Christian values can be outlawed.
The First Amendment was written to prevent this form of outlawing Christian values.

:thumb:

you're on a roll today g-o! :banana:

 

[Quetzal]

The OP is about the attempt by the FFRF to suppress the free exercise of religion, not about the promotion of any religion.

That is one interpretation, yes.

 

[genuineoriginal]

That is one interpretation, yes.

Can you provide an definition of "free exercise of religion" that excludes a Christian Coach taking time to pray after a football game?

Maybe you can provide the legal statute that states that a public school employee is not allowed to pray?
It would be nice to have an actual law to use to test whether the coach is violating the law instead of a nebulous lawsuit by FFRF claiming that the coach is doing something that is not against any law.

 

[Quetzal]

Can you provide an definition of "free exercise of religion" that excludes a Christian Coach taking time to pray after a football game?

Maybe you can provide the legal statute that states that a public school employee is not allowed to pray?
It would be nice to have an actual law to use to test whether the coach is violating the law instead of a nebulous lawsuit by FFRF claiming that the coach is doing something that is not against any law.

I think the problem isn't so much that he prays, it is that he is doing so in a way to make a statement. It appears there were discussions in regards to possible solutions for this to be handled properly and he didn't do what he was told. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. But I can also see why they might feel this way.

 

[Jose Fly]

yes, unfortunately that's the way the morons on the supreme court ruled and that's their "reasoning"

it is poor reasoning

I'm sure that's what you believe, but.....so what?

 

[genuineoriginal]

I think the problem isn't so much that he prays, it is that he is doing so in a way to make a statement.

You mean the statement that Christians believe in God and pray to Him about every part of their lives?

Are there people that don't know Christians do that?

Or are you thinking that there are people that don't want to know that there are Christians employed in public schools?

The school could have diffused the situation by simply giving a public announcement that states that they do not discriminate against anyone based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.

 

[Quetzal]

You mean the statement that Christians believe in God and pray to Him about every part of their lives?

Well, no. You can do those things without marching to the center of the field to draw attention to yourself. You can also do these things when you are not being paid by the state in a leadership role.