Pope now says it's okay to be gay.
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
I said
One must be called to Jesus to even have a chance. The right must be granted to them by the Father.
[Jhn 6:65
65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
[Jhn 5:36
36 "But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish--the very works that I do--bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.
[Jhn 6:39
39 "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
[Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.
[Jhn 5:29
29 "and come forth--those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Sorry if I misunderstood you. It certainly sounded like you wanted to put people back under the law the Jesus sacrificed Himself to free us from.
Apart from the law there is no sin. Scary thought for most.
It's all about a relationship with God.
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You would have to intentionally "misunderstand" to get where you got with your "understanding".
Wrong, but I know a lot of people might believe that.
Rom 5:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
That does not change the definitions that God has placed in scripture.
I said
Do you know the new testament is a law?
LAW OF CHRIST
[Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
John 14:6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
JOH 15-10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
John 14:1
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
Luke 6:37-38
37 "Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
38 "Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you."
John 3:17-19
17 "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 "And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 10:7-8
7 Then Jesus said to them again, "Most assuredly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them.
Heb 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 9:1
1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary.
Gal 6:2
2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Eph 4:32
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
Col 3:13
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.
Matt 6:14-15
14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 "But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
1 Cor 6:6-8
6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated?
8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren!
1 Pet 2:19-21
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
James 2:12
12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.
Rom 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.
Matt 5:19
19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 10:16-19
16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.
17 "But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues.
18 "You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles.
19 "But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak;
John 14:15-17
15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.
16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever--
17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
John 14:23-25
23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.
25 "These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
John 15:10-12
10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11 "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
XXX The old testament law of sin and death is still in effect. For the world. The law of Christ overrides the old testament law of sin and death. But if we break the law of Christ, that will put us back under the old testament law of sin and death. It takes a law to deliver us from a law. It also takes a law to keep us out of heaven. And it also takes a law to get us into heaven.
1 Cor 9:21
21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ), that I might win those who are without law;
(NKJ)
Matt 5:19-20
19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 "For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.
(NKJ)
Rom 2:11-13
11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
(NKJ)
Heb 8:10
10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
(NKJ)
Heb 10:16
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
(NKJ)
[Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Yes. It is two commandments: Love God with everything you've got and love your neighbor as yourself.
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Matt 22:40 (AKJV/PCE)
(22:40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
The Bible is a book of details.
You stated that looking at a woman with lust in your heart is a sin. Under Mosaic Law, it was. The question is, did Jesus complete that law and free us from judgement under that law or not.
I find Galatians 5, all of Galatians to be of great help when trying to understand Mosaic law and freedom in Christ.
Depends on where you look in scripture. I believe that Christ completed the Old Covenant and we are no longer bound by nor judged under the Old Covenant. Christ ushered in the New Covenant wit His blood. Love God with everything you've got, heart mind and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.
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The LORD Jesus Christ said that. Don't you believe Him?
So before and after this particular sin is OK?
Non-sequitur
Freedom in Christ is not freedom to sin.
No, He did not and YOU were never under the Old Covenant.
The New Covenant will be between God and Israel just like the Bible says. Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8
One of those details is that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins. Was he successful?
Not as you have quoted. You have taken it out of context and twisted it towards your own ends.
Is there sin apart from the law?
Interesting how you are willing to write of the heart of the matter as a non-sequitur,
I never said that it was. It is just harder to figure out what law defines sin. If you wish to circumcise yourself to the the Old Covenant, then do so. Just be sure to head Paul's words and kepp ALL of the law PERFECTLY ALL the time.
So you DO believe Jesus failed to pay for all our sins. Before you protest too much about my statement. Take some time to take what you said to its logical conclusion.
Now it looks like you are saying that Jesus's death and resurrection did nothing for the gentiles because they were never a part of Israel and remain apart from Israel to this day. I see no hope in your heart.
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You're a liar.
The Bible says yes:
Rom 5:13 (AKJV/PCE)
(5:13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
I tire of your lying.
I NEVER said that we (the body of Christ) are UNDER the law.
I understand BOTH law and grace just fine.
The old and new covenants are with ISRAEL and ONLY with Israel. God never made those covenants with gentiles.
No, I am just repeating what I hear you saying. If I am not hearing it correctly then I suggest that has a great deal to do with how you say it. Instead of avoiding the conversation by hurling epitaphs, restate your position in a different way.
Excellent! Now, what does it mean when it says that sin is not imputed?
See above. Refine your message.
Then why are you so concerned with sin? If there is no law that imputes sin upon us, why are you saying things are sinful?
Great! Please explain how they apply to us Gentiles.
So what are we poor Gentiles to do.
I note that i have asked you several times whether or not you believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins and whether He was successful or not. I note that you have not provide a direct answer to that question. Why?
What I penned years ago, still applies:
http://dispensationalberean.com/teaching/articles/
http://dispensationalberean.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/whalen_sat.pdf
http://dispensationalberean.com/teaching/articles/
http://dispensationalberean.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/whalen_sat.pdf
Not a comparable comparison,i.e., one with Dow Syndrome has a physical "defect."
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It means that you are confused and need to go back and reevaluate what you post.
I see that you will not be able to help. Thank you for your time.
marhig
Well-known member
What? So you believe that Jesus died on the cross so it's ok for you to now wilfully sin before God?
No, it's not. It's wrong before God to wilfully sin! And it's wrong before God to think wrong things like to lust after women, or to think gay thoughts.
Matthew 15
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
The laws are not abolished, the laws are for the lawless, and that means those who wilfully sin before God! Paul said that the laws are written in the hearts and in the minds of those who belong to Christ. Once we have the Spirit in the heart, we then follow the law through the Spirit as he teaches us within, thus writing the laws in our hearts and in our minds, teaching and guiding us in how to live right before God, cleansing our hearts and our minds and making the life of Christ manifest within and through us.
Jesus is our example to follow, and he had a clean heart and mind, and those who are born anew should be being cleansed by the Spirit, by the washing of the water of the word, and their hearts should be becoming more and more like that of Christ as he grows in them and they start becoming stronger in God through him. And our old lives should be gone, we should be dead to our old self and be decreasing, as Christ increases within and as his life grows within our hearts and we should be flourishing with the fruits of the Spirit as Christ lives through us and we then bring his life and the love of God to others.
And lusting after women and thinking about gay sex are not the ways of Christ, Jesus said blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God!
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I said it's okay to sin. I never said that.
i am a sinner. I am also forgiven. The occasional lustful thought does not condemn me. I do not feed my desires that run contrary loving God with everything I have got or do not show love for my neighbor.
A great many who call themselves Christian want nothing more than to but people under the do date of fear by implying that they must always be perfect before Jesus will love them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Jesus says come to me as you are and I will make you perfect before My Father.
marhig
Well-known member
And if you are being made perfect before the father, then when a lustful thought comes into your mind you should be stopping it not dwelling on it, and the Spirit should be prompting you to stop through your conscience and helping you not to do it. That's what Jesus means by deny yourself, we are to deny the lusts of our flesh, lust is of the flesh and the flesh is wrong before God. When we know it's wrong to do something we shouldn't do it. And when we realise we've done something wrong, we should confess our sins and go to God and repent. Once we know something is sinful or we know we've done wrong, then we are to stop doing it.
Love is from God, lust is from Satan
And it's our past sins that we did in ignorance that were forgiven when we came to know Jesus, not all our future ones too. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that our future sins are forgiven, once we know the truth then we are then to turn from sin and Christ in our hearts will help us to overcome, the truth sets us free, and that is free from sin and the world and that happens when Christ by the power of the Spirit starts help us to overcome and help us cast out our devils setting us free from the chains of darkness that held us captive in this dark world when we were blind, once we walk in the light we see and we walk in the Spirit and we should know the truth, and we should know what's right and wrong before God as Satan and sin is revealed to us and our conscience becomes stronger. Jesus said to the Pharisees, because you say you see, your sin remains. We can't say we see and then wilfully sin.
Paul says we will be judged on what we do good and bad. We are not to do something that we know is wrong before God, and think that it's ok and God will forgive us anyway and lust is wrong before God, in any form.
Do you believe that it's alright before the living God to have lustful thoughts about women?