Poll: Do you agree with this picture?
- Thread starter musterion
- Start date
Nanja
Well-known member
The condition of a person's heart before they are saved is corrupted and evil.
Jer. 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Gen. 6:6
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The natural man has a blinded heart that is alienated from the Life of God: spiritually dead.
Eph. 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Consequently, before we are saved we have nothing to offer God; nothing we do can please Him Rom. 8:8, for all our works are as filthy rags.
Is. 64:6-7
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
~~~~~
Jer. 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Gen. 6:6
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
The natural man has a blinded heart that is alienated from the Life of God: spiritually dead.
Eph. 4:18
Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Consequently, before we are saved we have nothing to offer God; nothing we do can please Him Rom. 8:8, for all our works are as filthy rags.
Is. 64:6-7
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
~~~~~
musterion
Well-known member
It makes sense why this is such a popular "gospel" hook these days. It gives you something to do to help save yourself (YOU made a deal with Jesus by giving Him something, so He kinda owes you), and it lets you believe your heart really isn't all that bad (He accepts your heart rather than it being co-crucified as unredeemably wicked). Pure fleshly sentiment under the curse of Galatians 1:8-9.
I like it
That is not the implication of the picture. It is a life of works and service. And if you do good enough, he will save you. Have you never sat through a Catholic or Pentecostal service?
Nanja
Well-known member
One's Believing unto Righteousness is not possible with a wicked, unregenerate heart Jer. 17:9. But the only Believing / Faith that pleases God is done by a circumcised Heart Deut. 30:6 given in New Birth Gal. 5:22.
Ezek. 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
So in place of the stony, hard impenitent heart / mind Rom. 2:5, God gives His People Mat. 1:21 a New Heart / mind; a New Nature 1 Pet. 1:23 which makes them subject to Him, to serve Him and Love Him with their whole soul Mat. 22:37!
~~~~~
I suppose it depends on what giving your heart to Jesus means.
Nanja
Well-known member
No, it doesn't matter at all.
The natural man, one who has never been Born of the Spirit, can't please God no matter what he does Rom. 8:8!
~~~~~
The Mayans gave hearts to their god.
Diego de Landa a Spanish Bishop was one of the few Europeans to witness human sacrifices. He described them in detail telling that the sacrificial victim was first painted blue. Then, the victim was led to the top of the pyramid and laid over a stone alter. He was then held down by the chacs and the nacom cut open his chest and tore out his still beating heart. This was done with a ceremonial knife usually made of obsidian or flint. The heart was then handed to the high priest and the body of the victim was tossed down the temple’s stairs.
(anthropology.msu.edu/anp363-ss13/2013/04/17/sacrifice/)
(anthropology.msu.edu/anp363-ss13/2013/04/17/sacrifice/)
Sounds fair.
Danoh really get it.
You guys will pick out the smallest gnat out of your camel soup!
The message of the picture depends on your perspective. If you come at it from a Romans 10 perspective then its beautiful and awesome. But that's not the only perspective from which the picture is good.
God want you to love Him! He doesn't want your works, He doesn't want your money, He doesn't want your time or your talent, nor does He want the blood pump in your chest. What He wants is you, which is all the "heart" is.
Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Ephesians 5:19
speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
Ephesians 6:5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; 6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
Ephesians 5:19
speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,
Ephesians 6:5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ; 6 not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as bondservants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, 7 with goodwill doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
Resting in Him,
Clete
glorydaz
Well-known member
Go straight to hell you child of the devil.
I understand the picture by the words used. One of the promises of the Father is that he will give us a new heart and a new spirit. Why would he want back the new heart he gave us?
musterion
Well-known member
The context of this picture (at least where I found it being used) is how one becomes right with God through Christ. I agree with Nick that that's likely the sense with which it was created.
If anyone wants to view it as an illustration of what a saved person should do with (I guess) their Christian life...well...okay...that's up to them. I would humbly point out to such is still very off the mark. Not only is the believer already owned as a bought-and-paid-for slave; Christ is already the believer's LIFE. The old heart has already been crucified. So I don't know what a believer giving his heart to Christ, or Him accepting it, would depict. The believer's heart [life] already belongs to Him. It IS Him.
A far better cartoon, to make that point, would show the new man putting to death the old man's deeds. A cartoon of the believer walking by the Spirit would be much tougher to pull off.
And call me a legalist if you want but I will always despise any attempt to visually depict Christ.
Anyhoo, if that's being nitpicky, tough. I won't apologize. There's too much sloppiness already with the Word of God, and it helps put people in the Lake.
If anyone wants to view it as an illustration of what a saved person should do with (I guess) their Christian life...well...okay...that's up to them. I would humbly point out to such is still very off the mark. Not only is the believer already owned as a bought-and-paid-for slave; Christ is already the believer's LIFE. The old heart has already been crucified. So I don't know what a believer giving his heart to Christ, or Him accepting it, would depict. The believer's heart [life] already belongs to Him. It IS Him.
A far better cartoon, to make that point, would show the new man putting to death the old man's deeds. A cartoon of the believer walking by the Spirit would be much tougher to pull off.
And call me a legalist if you want but I will always despise any attempt to visually depict Christ.
Anyhoo, if that's being nitpicky, tough. I won't apologize. There's too much sloppiness already with the Word of God, and it helps put people in the Lake.
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You and your ilk believe that one must first be regenerated before receiving saving faith. That's because you and B57 are "Ultra,hyper-Calvinistic fanatics. You and he, in essence, reject the Grace Gospel.
B57 and Nanja also believe that God creates ALL sin.