ECT "PISTEUO", the secret of the universe....

[Faither]

I gave 4100 and 4102 because they are related. Read the first one: 4100. They do have labels and the word being defined.

4102 is the Greek word "pistis" (the English word "Faith".) 4100 is the Greek word "pisteuo" the corresponding verb to "pistis." ( the English has no word for Pisteuo), that's what began this problem.

I copied the definition of pisteuo word for word out of the "new strongs expanded" and the "vines."

The vines says, "A personal surrender to Him" " and a life inspired by such surrender." We can ask, What am I surrendering? ( our life and will). Who are we surrendering our life and will to? (Jesus Christ)

In the strongs it simply says "commit unto". Commit unto who you can ask, ( we are committing our lives to Jesus Christ," and so on. The strngs goes onto say, "be committed unto," To commit ones trust." ( All committed to Jesus Christ) What are we committing to Jesus Christ? Our lives!

 

[Faither]

You can make it too big of an issue by being too conscious about it. People will 'volunteer freely on the day of His power' says Ps 2. In other words, it is not a matter of just jerking our will around with our nervous system, to do something. We have to be awash in the value, the inspiration, the worth of what needs to be done, to the point that we don't care how much surrender there is. At the end of the day, 'his yoke is easy and his burden is light.' Because there is love for what he wants done.

It's still a burden, it's still a yoke.

 

[Faither]

Just as Nick had been pointing out.

Your AA absolute surrender notion has you making a mockery of "the faith OF Christ" that Romans 3:22 is actually basically summarising IS the issue.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What is this issue of "having begun in the Spirit..."? It is the issue of something that THE SPIRIT did the very moment in which they believed that Christ died for their sins...

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Some "Faither" came along to lay on the Galatians the fool notion they were to do something - that it was not as simple as taking as objective fact that Christ had died for their sins.

Its crystal clear for anyone willing to allow words to define their intended sense by HOW they are used.

One would have to be willingly blind to not see what Paul's contrast between "the hearing of faith" and "made perfect by the flesh" points to.

That the believing action is the hearing of faith. It is not a physical doing.

The hearing of faith is basically concluding a thing true.

It is an action of the mind...

To quote a former worker bee absolute surrenderist:

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What is this "with the mind" business all about?

It is the issue, not of a physical action - he's proven that falls short - but of an already accomplished Identity the very moment one takes as fact "Christ died for my sins."

Look at it - "I am..." it is done.

And look where the source of the "work" comes from AFTER that - the same source - "the faith OF Christ."

Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I have concluded you do not know what you are talking about. I have come to believe you are confused about this.

Whether I act on my belief or not does not change my having concluded you do not know what you are talking about.

That is the "faithing" Paul is talking about.

Here's one - I believe Donald Trump lives in Manhattan, NY.

Guess what? He does. In Trump Tower.

No action. None. That is what Romans 3 is talking about - deciding to take a thing as being fact.

When you say the Faith OF Christ, that's another whole new discussion isn't it. Here, we are discussing "pisteuo". I thought you don't get hung up on words?

If I were trying to warn people about this mistranslation of the words believe, believer , and believing without first having the experience to support it, all your conclusions ( not knowing what I'm talking about) could be and most likely would be warranted. The problem for me and you is, I had the experiences talked about in the Word before I learned it. Life altering experiences, that no one could ignore. I don't see myself as anything special, i'm just having a by the book Salvation journey. These things should be happening to everyone here. I'm busting at the seams wanting to talk about Gods Word, but I know if this first piece of the puzzle isn't understood, nothing will happen.

So as for you and I, if you can't accept the Greek definitions of the word "pisteuo" used 248 times in the NT, we CAN"T talk about anything else.

 

[Nick M]

The corrected translation is on page 69 for you, as I said on post 70 and now post 80.

It is one sentence. You did not tell us what it really means.

 

[Faither]

It is one sentence. You did not tell us what it really means.

If I need to tell you what everything means on the Salvation journey, your heart isn't right for surrender.

It's a simple concept, but a genuine surrender is hard for us to do.

Surrender is no deals, no half measures, it's not your life anymore.

 

[Danoh]

It is one sentence. You did not tell us what it really means.

Regretabbly, he has traded in one bottle, for another - the hooch that is religious fanaticism.

Tell ya what; you hold em down, and I'll pour The Epistle of Paul to the Galatians down his throat, that oughta sober him up, lol

 

[Danoh]

If I need to tell you what everything means on the Salvation journey, your heart isn't right for surrender.

It's a simple concept, but a genuine surrender is hard for us to do.

Surrender is no deals, no half measures, it's not your life anymore.

Contrary to the myth of most, a duck is not a duck because it looks like, walks like, and quacks like a duck...a duck is a duck because it is "born" a duck.

 

[Faither]

Contrary to the myth of most, a duck is not a duck because it looks like, walks like, and quacks like a duck...a duck is a duck because it is "born" a duck.

That's some heavy "theology " there danoh! I was really hoping the bar TOL has set here be a little higher.

Why are you even replying to this thread? Your the only one to say "no" I don't accept how the Greek dictionary defines "pisteuo". I gave you props for being honest! What now , you won't be happy until you misrepresent me over and over, or you feel I've been beaten enough. If that's what you got to do, do it and get it over with.

 

[Faither]

Contrary to the myth of most, a duck is not a duck because it looks like, walks like, and quacks like a duck...a duck is a duck because it is "born" a duck.

Sorry , you can't pass go without surrendering your life to Jesus! That's what this is all about!

No easier softer way!

 

[Bradley D]

Faith is pitis: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

believe pisteuo: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

The root of pitis is peíthō: I persuade, urge. Peitho also means obey/obeying. So faith which includes believe also includes obeying. If I have faith in God I will obey Him because God is everything. Not that anything I do can be counted to an account, which it cannot. It does mean that what good I do is for the love of God.

 

[Danoh]

Sorry , you can't pass go without surrendering your life to Jesus! That's what this is all about!

No easier softer way!

No, nope, and nah...

The surrender is built in.

You are stuck in Romans 7.

You need to get into Romans 8 - in light of Romans 1 - 5.

You're talking something YOU bring to the table. Romans 7 through...and...through.

That is not Grace motivation, that is your AA "step up to the plate and make that change" deal with some higher power that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cross nor its reason.

I swear; its as if you have concluded that Phillipians 3 is Paul standing up at an AA meeting...

That is not how Grace Motivation works. The Law proved one can not legislate anyone's morality.

O I'm sure you feel real good, and "o so much closer to God," with each time at bat and all that.

And O how you love Jesus and want that for one and all...

But that is not how Grace Motivation works...

Rather, faith; which worketh (is empowered) by (His great) love (wherewith He loved us such, that He died for us).

And the way that works is not "here's ten action steps for getting closer to God..."

Rather, as the Believer grows in knowledge of God's love for him in His Son by His Spirit through time in His Word learning about this great love wherewith He loved Him, this love empowers his walk in Him.

"No Help Wanted, Worker Bees Need Not Bother."

What does Paul tell the very assembly that would have driven you back to the bottle; you are so determined that others just sign on the dotted line of this Emancipation Annihilation of yours?

What did Paul write the Corinthians about all this?


2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

The faith OF Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

See that - Grace Motivation!

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

He died that those he died for might be empowered by said love of His for them not to live unto themselves, but unto Him.

How? As one grows in an understanding of this great love of His wherewith He died for them.

As a mother and child's love naturally grows. It is not legislated!

It is not "see this Greek word here - follow it - make me happy!"

Look, grace is not grace unless it is willing to risk the abuse the Son risked - murdered under his warm sun, on His Earth, using wood and metal fashioned out of His creation, by His creation!

That is great love indeed! That is Grace!

I know, I know, but the Greek...

1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

End of distortion...

 

[journey]

The bottom line for this thread is simple: it's a con game. There is no secret regarding the definition of the Greek word pisteuo. The definition has been known for well over 2,000 years, and that definition has not changed.

Strong's

G4100

πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Total KJV occurrences: 248

 

[Faither]

Faith is pitis: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

believe pisteuo: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.

The root of pitis is peíthō: I persuade, urge. Peitho also means obey/obeying. So faith which includes believe also includes obeying. If I have faith in God I will obey Him because God is everything. Not that anything I do can be counted to an account, which it cannot. It does mean that what good I do is for the love of God.

Hi Bradley,

Thanks for being in agreement with me yesterday, but, the words believe and obey are two words I "never" use when I'm talking about my relationship with God or anyone else. This is why. The word believe in Scripture is a mistranslation, The English language has no word for the verb form of Faith, so they used the words believe, believer, and believing. Those words are not even in the Greek language, they have no word for "believe " because there is no state of being as just believing. We are either Faithing forwards, (pisteuo), or we are Faithing backwards (apisteuo) there's no neutral or in between ground much less how one is drawn to Salvation. Pisteuo is a verb , and act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The translators used a word that simply described a verb, not the true meaning of pisteuo. The words we should have had for the translators are, faither, faithing, and to faithe. Those aren't in the English language.

As for Obey, If we have started a life of surrender towards God and at some point He seals the Holy Spirit in us, He is doing any acts of obedience through us, no us by making a choice to obey. We have the choice to surrender our lives to God, and as a result of that surrender, his nature will flow out of us in the form of an obedient act.

 

[Nick M]

Sorry , you can't pass go without surrendering your life to Jesus!

Let you be accursed with your false gospel. He surrendered his life to the Father on my behalf. And that is the only thing the Father will accept. You have it backwards, you are outside the faith. Which is why you will not tell us what it really means.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

thanks

I'm reposting this thread in hopes that the replies will reflect the OP.

This thread is about the word "pisteuo".

Do you agree with the definitions given in the strongs and the Vines Greek dictionary?

Theres only been one real answer by danoh, in which he said "no" he doesn't, and then has gone on to personally attack me.

What this post is asking isn't that hard. Do you agree with the Strongs and Vines Greek dictionary concerning the word "pisteuo?" If yes explain why. If no explain why, and explain why with the definitions in the OP as I have copied them word for word out of the 2 texts.

Lets get this thread back on track, don't reply about the messenger, but reply about the questions the messenger has asked.

thank you!

 

[Faither]

The bottom line for this thread is simple: it's a con game. There is no secret regarding the definition of the Greek word pisteuo. The definition has been known for well over 2,000 years, and that definition has not changed.

Strong's

G4100

πιστεύω
pisteuō
pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.
Total KJV occurrences: 248

Journey,
Are you saying you reject the definitions of pisteuo I have copied out of the strongs and Vines?

 

[Faither]

No, nope, and nah...

The surrender is built in.

You are stuck in Romans 7.

You need to get into Romans 8 - in light of Romans 1 - 5.

You're talking something YOU bring to the table. Romans 7 through...and...through.

That is not Grace motivation, that is your AA "step up to the plate and make that change" deal with some higher power that has absolutely nothing to do with the Cross nor its reason.

I swear; its as if you have concluded that Phillipians 3 is Paul standing up at an AA meeting...

That is not how Grace Motivation works. The Law proved one can not legislate anyone's morality.

O I'm sure you feel real good, and "o so much closer to God," with each time at bat and all that.

And O how you love Jesus and want that for one and all...

But that is not how Grace Motivation works...

Rather, faith; which worketh (is empowered) by (His great) love (wherewith He loved us such, that He died for us).

And the way that works is not "here's ten action steps for getting closer to God..."

Rather, as the Believer grows in knowledge of God's love for him in His Son by His Spirit through time in His Word learning about this great love wherewith He loved Him, this love empowers his walk in Him.

"No Help Wanted, Worker Bees Need Not Bother."

What does Paul tell the very assembly that would have driven you back to the bottle; you are so determined that others just sign on the dotted line of this Emancipation Annihilation of yours?

What did Paul write the Corinthians about all this?


2 Corinthians 1:24 Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.

The faith OF Christ.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

See that - Grace Motivation!

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

He died that those he died for might be empowered by said love of His for them not to live unto themselves, but unto Him.

How? As one grows in an understanding of this great love of His wherewith He died for them.

As a mother and child's love naturally grows. It is not legislated!

It is not "see this Greek word here - follow it - make me happy!"

Look, grace is not grace unless it is willing to risk the abuse the Son risked - murdered under his warm sun, on His Earth, using wood and metal fashioned out of His creation, by His creation!

That is great love indeed! That is Grace!

I know, I know, but the Greek...

1 Corinthians 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

End of distortion...

I can see your understandably upset, but can you support your view of why Pisteuo in the strongs and Vines is not acceptable to you? Please only address the definitions I've copied word for word out of those two texts, in the OP.

 

[Faither]

The Greek word "pisteuo". Probably the most important word that we will ever hear as called out ones. I consider this word to be the "secret of the universe". Because one day, God will reveal the importance of "pisteuo," and everyone will know it was right there in front of us all the time.

I beat this drum of "pisteuo ", because without actively exercising "pisteuo", no one can have the relationship with Christ that the NT talks about. An indwelling Holy Spirit, being in Christ, having Gods nature flowing through us, the word of God being ours to look at like a mirror, the mind of Christ, to be able to have that continual praying without ceasing. Without "pisteuo," none of these things will come to pass.

With those things said, what exactly is "pisteuo?"

"Pisteuo" is the Greek word, a verb, that's corresponds with the Greek word, a noun, "pistis".

When pistis and pisteuo were translated into the English texts, Pistis is where we get our word
"faith", the noun, was no problem. But when the translators tried to find an English word for "pisteuo," there was none. Pisteuo is a verb, An act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".

Pisteuo is the word that describes, encompasses, and teaches us what NT saving Faith is. We should have had the words faither, faithing, and to faithe, for the translators to use when translating pisteuo into English. But only because they had no other choice, they had to go with believer, believing, and to believe. The word pisteuo and it's English mistranslations are used over 250 times in the NT. The words believer, believing, and to believe are only one third of what Nt saving Faith is. And building an understanding on any of these three words is not NT saving Faith.

Over the next few days i'm going to post on this thread,certain Scriptures with the vines dictionary meaning in place of the mistranslated words. It will be very hard for many to accept. But remember, this doesn't just affect you, your entire household and family will be affected by this.

Positive comments and good questions only. Please no, "I don't accept the Greek dictionary definitions."

1) John 3:16

English translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever "believes" (mistranslation) in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

Greek translation : "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever "pisteuo" surrenders their life and will to Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

2) John 5:24

English translation : "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "believes" (mistranslation) in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

Greek translation : " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and "surrenders their life" (pisteuo) to Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."

The reason for the two different translations is the English language has no word for the Greek word Pisteuo. So taking out the mistranslated word "believes" and putting in the Greek definition of pisteuo gives us a better understanding of what the Greek texts were trying to convey.

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the Gospels alone. I'll continue to post the true meanings of other Scriptures

4) Rom. 3:22

English mistranslation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith In Jesus Christ to all and on all who "believe". (mistranslated word "believe) For there is no difference;

Greek corrected translation : even the righteousness of God which is through Faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all who "surrender there lives to Him". (pisteuo) For there is no difference;

5) 1 Cor. 14:22,

English mistranslation: "Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; But prophesying is not for unbelievers but for those who believe."

Corrected English translation from the Greek: Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who surrender their lives to Jesus but to those who surrender their lives to another Jesus; but prophesy is not for those who surrender their lives to someone other than the NT Christ but for those who do surrender their lives to the Jesus Christ of the NT.

The correct translation of "pisteuo", changes the meaning from a false understanding to a true understanding.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

The best translation of Pisteuo is trust. Trusting Christ makes the whole matter dependent upon Him. Cleansed by Him, full of Him, empowered by Him. Slaves of the Master.
"But now that you have been set free from sin and become slaves to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and it's end eternal life." Romans 6:22

The truth of Pisteuo is freeing.

 

[Danoh]

I can see your understandably upset, but can you support your view of why Pisteuo in the strongs and Vines is not acceptable to you? Please only address the definitions I've copied word for word out of those two texts, in the OP.

Actually, as I was writing that post, I found myself rejoicing in its's truths as I reflected on them, once more.

I have you to thank for that, in part.

Spoiler

For were you not on here promoting this version of Galatianism of yours, I would not be writing against it and in doing so, rejoicing once more in the Grace that is in Christ Jesus.

YOU were never the issue. YOU have NEVER been the issue in my words to you. The Lord and His Cross ALONE IS.

In this, my words to you are not about you but about your thought process and or assertions.

You would have picked up on this were you of the understanding in your life by now that words in dictionaries are neither for the purpose of opening them up for instant "one size fits all" contexts definitions, nor for cherry picking which of their often multiple choices better agrees with one's bias.

I have nothing against you. I do believe you have confused one thing for another in your zeal.

And that kind of confusing of one thing for another often follows the same pattern - emotions and situations in life taken to be "the Spirit's leading" that one is on the right track.

You have asserted that very thing in your own words several times.

I don't subscribe to that. It simply vanished away or ceased within me as I began to grow in my understanding of how God works today, this side of "that which us perfect" - the "perfect," FULL or complete revelation of His Mystery to and through the Apostle Paul by his writings: Romans thru Philemon.

That is how all these things work as to the no longer needed and or appropriate- they drop off as one grows in one's understanding of who God HAS made one IN His Son.

And that is arrived at through time in the Word learning about this Identity that the Spirit of God resident in one then empowers one's actions "by love" through.

Say a loved is ill and you are visiting with them and they are sleeping. What motivates how you feel as you look over at them? And what motivates your behavior as you strive to be quit that you not disturb them?

Love.

Agape is supposedly is an action. At least that is the cold, bereft of inner life impression one gets from dictionaries....

For what really matters; what the actually valid issue is, is what is motivating said action.

In contrast, what you are talking about continues to miss its mark all over Christian internet forums.

Look at all the bickering and need for personal attacks the legalism you are actually proposing has only resulted in throughout Christianity over the centuries and now, all over the internet.

Why? Because people "know in" their "heart" they "should behave better."

The very principle that, under the Law, had been meant to set the heart off against the very righteousness the law called for; that sin might appear what it is - sin that dwelleth within.

No, Faither, I am neither against you personally, nor upset in anyway, shape, or form.

Not only is animosity a useless using up of one's spiritual energy, but, I have learned to follow "Paul: The Apostle of the Heart Set Free."

Always did like that title by F.F. Bruce.

The best to you in this Faither.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Both the Body of Christ had settled this issue back in Acts 15.

And now, here some from both sides of the fence were not only once more at odds with Gentile status before God as to this principle, but had succeeded in sewing discord among both once more.

How? This idea of yours Faither, that the issue is this "self-improvement, get right with God" works of the flesh that you are so zealously promoting because that "FEELS right" to you.