ECT "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" - The Catholic Church

[Right Divider]

LOL!! I was throwing YOUR illogic back at you you tool.

You said that Peter never claimed to be be pope ergo he was not pope. That is YOUR logic.

So I said that Paul never claimed his writings were scripture ergo they are not scripture. That is YOUR logic.

lol you can't even recognize your own stupidity. lol

Peter never claimed to be "Pope". The Bible never claimed that Peter is elevated above the rest. Peter calls HIMSELF a "fellow elder" and NOT the "number one guy".

The twelve are twelve equals.

Peter is not our apostle, Paul is.

Paul is the apostle to whom God gave the present dispensation. Paul is OUR apostle.

 

[Trump Gurl]

Peter never claimed to be "Pope"

You are repeating yourself.

 

[Trump Gurl]

The correct answer is:

A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth"
(source link):

QUOTE:

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

END EXCERPT QUOTE

 

[God's Truth]

The correct answer is:

When did the Catholic church go to Hell and get past the gates of Hell?

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Jesus is the one who went to Hell and the gates of Hell couldn't keep him there.

 

[God's Truth]

You are repeating yourself.

Wouldn't you give it all up for God's Truth?

 

[Trump Gurl]

Wouldn't you give it all up for God's Truth?

I already have it.

 

[Right Divider]

You are repeating yourself.

I repeat the truth quite a lot.

 

[Trump Gurl]

I repeat the truth

I have yet to see you tell the truth once in this thread. You remain willfully ignorant of the facts.

 

[God's Truth]

I already have it.

Would you be willing to give up the Catholic denomination for God's Truth?

Just think about it for a minute.

It isn't about whether or not you think you already have the truth.

I am asking if it is something you could do if it were not the truth.

 

[Trump Gurl]

Would you be willing to give up the Catholic denomination for God's Truth?

The Catholic Church IS God's Truth.

I suggest you read "An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine" by John Henry Cardinal Newman. Fortunately some enterprising person posted this great book online:

>> http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/index.html

John Henry Cardinal Newman, who was an Anglican bishop before becoming a Catholic, once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

 

[Right Divider]

The Catholic Church IS God's Truth.

I suggest you read "An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine" by John Henry Cardinal Newman. Fortunately some enterprising person posted this great book online:

>> http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/index.html

John Henry Cardinal Newman, who was an Anglican bishop before becoming a Catholic, once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

You are a Cathoholic. Seek help.

 

[Trump Gurl]

You are a Cathoholic. Seek help.

You are a rude snotty tool who believes fake stuff.

 

[Trump Gurl]

 

[Right Divider]

You are a rude snotty tool who believes fake stuff.

You're consistently wrong.

 

[Trump Gurl]

You're consistently wrong.

Yah right. lol. And yet you cannot disprove one single thing in the first post of this thread. You just keep repeating yourself like a child.

A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth"
(source link):

QUOTE:

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

END EXCERPT QUOTE

 

[God's Truth]

The Catholic Church IS God's Truth.

I suggest you read "An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine" by John Henry Cardinal Newman. Fortunately some enterprising person posted this great book online:

>> http://www.newmanreader.org/works/development/index.html

John Henry Cardinal Newman, who was an Anglican bishop before becoming a Catholic, once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

No, I said could you give up the Catholic denomination IF IT were false.

I don't read essays on people who preach false doctrines on Catholicism. Could you get any of them to come here and debate me? I'd really like that.

 

[Trump Gurl]

No, I said could you give up the Catholic denomination IF IT were false.

It's a dumb question because it is not false. And it is not a denomination, it is THE CHURCH.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

In fact, the very fact that you use the acronym RCC proves that you haven't got the first clue what the Catholic Church is or even what it is called.

The following is speaking about the church at Rome:

"For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying,come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev.18:3-4).​

You've been brainwashed, CatholicCrusader!

 

[Idolater]

Would you be willing to give up the Catholic denomination for God's Truth?

Just think about it for a minute.

It isn't about whether or not you think you already have the truth.

I am asking if it is something you could do if it were not the truth.

That's the dumbest question in the world. Which is par for the course for you. Why would a Catholic have to grant you your own personal Anticatholic bias and delusion? Why would anybody spend even a second thinking such an idiotic thing. You are Anticatholic. Catholics aren't. You're at loggerheads.

 

[Idolater]

The following is speaking about the church at Rome: ...

According to: Jerry Shugart from the internet.

Clearly, an Anticatholic.

Anticatholics will say anything terrible about Catholicism that they can, and the more scriptures they can pretend indicts Catholicism the better.

In contrast, Catholicism is actually the New Testament Church. The Church in the Bible is the Catholic Church---same One, holy, and Apostolic Church that we read about, with dioceses in Rome, in Jerusalem, in Corinth, Ephesus, Philippi, etc. It's the same Catholic Church.