PETER AND PAUL PREACHED DIFFERENT GOSPELS

[Lon]

I'm not MAD so need a lot of this explained and will ask a few clarifying questions, if permissible. Thanks you.

Peter and Paul did not preach the same gospel messages. Below are the differences between the gospels and Apostleship's of Peter and Paul.

Peter's Apostleship: His Apostleship was commanded by Jesus Christ along with the other eleven disciples before Paul. Peter was primarily the Apostle to Israel (Galatians 2:8). Peter's Apostleship was diminishing after Paul was converted.

Where does the idea that "Peter's Apostleship was diminishing" come from?

Paul's Apostleship: Paul was persecuting the church of God before being converted. After his conversion Paul was given revelations from the Lord Jesus Christ; Paul did not learn from any man including the twelve Apostles (Galatians 1:12). Paul was primarily the Apostle to Gentiles (Romans 11:13 2 Timothy 1:11).

:think: Isn't this more about the difference in how they were chosen rather than the difference in message?

Peter's Justification: Peter and the other eleven Apostles taught justification unto eternal life by believing on the name of Jesus; by believing Jesus is Christ, the Son of God (Acts 10:43 Matthew 16:16 Acts 4:12 Acts 2:36 John 20:31).

I think I get this, having read some MAD threads in the past, but how are the two gospels the same as well as different? Is there a chart? I'm looking for both to understand the context of these two being different as well as the significance. I'd think every MAD knows this already, but as this seems to be an informative thread, I'm simply trying to help elicit the meaning and significance for believers (gentiles specifically, but Jews also, as it applies). Again, I believe I've the gist on this but for the posterity of the thread, I ask.

Peter preached that Israel under the old covenant was redeemed and cleansed by the crucifixion and shed blood of Jesus (Matthew 26:28 Hebrews 9:15 1 Peter 1:2 1 Peter 1:18-19 1 Peter 2:24). Peter preached forgiveness of sin at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 3:19).

1 Peter2: ²⁴ He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. I need this explained, are you saying that sin isn't forgiven under Peter's gospel, until the Lord returns? If not..continuing just below...

Paul's Justification: Paul taught justification unto eternal life by the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18 Galatians 6:14 Colossians 1:20). Justification by faith that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again for complete salvation unto eternal life (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Colossians 2:10). Paul taught forgiveness of all sin now by the blood of Jesus (Ephesians 1:7).

What specifically is the same and what is different, as MAD understands it?

]Peter's gospel: Peter preached remission of sins in the name of Jesus (Acts 10:43). Peter taught the gospel of the kingdom (Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6 2 Peter 1:11). Israel would inherit the promise of the Davidic kingdom on earth (Luke 1:32 Genesis 13:15). Israel would rule and reign with Jesus for a thousand year period (Revelation 20:6). Israel would be a light for salvation unto the Gentile nations that would enter the kingdom (Isaiah 60:3).

How long was this Peter's message? All through Acts, or did this change after Acts 10,11 when the gentile Cornelius and his whole household were saved? Was there any marked change between the two, as far as MAD goes?

Paul's gospel: Paul taught the gospel of the uncircumcision (Galatians 2:7). Paul taught salvation to all freely by faith in Christ apart from the covenants of Israel, and apart from keeping the law (Romans 9:4 Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:19).

When MAD says "Gospel" do they mean 'salvation?' Are they intertwined identical terms? Is/was the Jew saved by the saving work on the cross? What significance does this play for MAD theology?

Peter and the resurrection: Peter preached the gospel of the circumcision (Galatians 2:7). Israel under the old covenant promises was promised to be a holy nation, a kingdom of kings and priests to rule over the Gentile nations with Christ (Revelation 1:6 Exodus 19:6 Revelation 5:10). Peter preached that the resurrection of Christ gave Israel assurance of that coming kingdom because Christ was raised to sit on the throne of David in that prophetic kingdom (1 Peter 1:3 Acts 3:25 Acts 2:30). Peter preached the receiving of the Holy Ghost to empower Israel to enter the kingdom (Luke 24:49 Acts 1:8 Acts 2:33 Acts 2:38).

A lot of Jews are looking for a different kind of Messiah today. Does any 'difference' in good news legitimize Israel's current rejection of Jesus as messiah?

Paul and the resurrection: Paul taught that Christ was risen for our justification (Romans 4:25).

Peter and works: Peter preached works as necessary for salvation in order to enter the kingdom (Acts 10:35 1 Peter 1:15 1 Peter 2:9 2 Peter 1:10-11). Peter preached to Israel repentance and baptism for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Peter preached holiness, and to remain steadfast unto the coming of Jesus and his kingdom (2 Peter 3:17).

Paul and works: Paul taught salvation without works (Titus 3:5 Romans 4:6 Ephesians 2:8-9).

In Acts15:1-21 The gospel wasn't different, but the application for all believers as they discussed the difference between being a Jew following Christ, and the gentile, following Him. Interestingly, Acts 15:21 says that 'they' (gentiles) have synagogues in their own cities which could lead us to confirm that some Jewish teaching was yet important for gentiles. On this, I agree with MAD, but it'd be good to discuss this point for many churches today are still trying to earn salvation, rather than realizing as new wineskins, we are remade with new wine.

Peter and the church: Peter preached to Israel (Acts 3:12). Gentiles had to come through Israel and it's covenants to be added to the church (Exodus 12:48 Acts 11:1); Gentiles had to believe the preaching of the word delivered to Israel as preached by Peter (Acts 13:48).

Paul and the church: Paul taught the church as the body of Christ, a new creature where there was neither Jew or Gentile (Galatians 6:15 Galatians 3:28 Ephesians 2:14).

Peter and heaven: Peter taught that Israel would receive the kingdom on earth ( Luke 9:2 Luke 9:6 2 Peter 1:11 Acts 2:30). He taught their reward was stored in heaven but not in heaven (1 Peter 1:4).

Paul and heaven: Paul taught the church seated with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6).

Both Peter and Paul were ordained of God to preach the gospel. Those who believed their gospels are in Christ. Peter's gospel faded away as Israel was diminished, and is not the gospel that is preached today. Paul preaches the gospel by which we are saved today. Paul in his epistles reveal the mysteries and doctrine for the church today.

In what sense do Jews need the saving work of Christ in their lives? Is it possible for an unregenerate Jew to inherit the Kingdom? Further, why is 'land' good news (gospel) for a Jew? Wouldn't salvation in Christ be the ultimate gospel for all men? Again, some of this I'm familiar with, but am asking some questions simply because I believe they will 1) create better listeners and 2) help MAD articulate what is needed for such discussions. Thanks. -Lon

 

[God's Truth]

Gal 2:19 KJV For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Paul is explaining that if a person dies to sin, as one who believes in Jesus is supposed to do, then they are dead to the law.

 

[God's Truth]

Sure you do. You want me to believe falsehood.

No way, I want you to know God’s Truth.

You can TRY to put yourself under a covenant that God CLEARLY and UNAMBIGUOUSLY says is with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL if you like. You are only fooling yourself.

Paul is a minister of that covenant:

2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

1 Corinthians 11:25 In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."


Now read how it is written on the Gentiles hearts too:


2 Corinthians 3:3 It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.


See there, receiving the Holy Spirit is how we have Jesus’ teachings on our hearts.

 

[God's Truth]

There are many salvation's in the Bible. You cannot tell them apart, just like you cannot tell the various gospels apart. Your fairy tale has you blinded to the truth.

Why is Peter speaking of a FUTURE salvation in 1 Peter 1:5?

Peter was speaking about how Jesus is the promise AS THE OLD TESTAMENT SAID WOULD COME IN THE FUTURE. The future was when Jesus came.

That you cannot distinguish the dispensations of God is your own personal problem.


I've saved by grace through faith. I don't need your false, self-righteous "gospel of my own obedience".


Rom 5:19-21 KJV For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: (21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
I'll take Christ's imputed righteousness over my own every single time.

Read this scripture, Paul says REPENT THEN KNOW THE TRUTH:

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.
Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


Paul is even afraid some of the Corinthians aren't really saved because THEY DIDN'T repent.

2 Corinthians 12:21 I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.
Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commands is what counts.

 

[Right Divider]

My beliefs are from Jesus.

Jehovah's Witnesses say the same thing.

Your beliefs are from a teacher who tickled your ears.

Nope... Mine comes for the Bible plainly and simply. Yours is a convoluted mess.

That is right. Jesus is God the Father in the Old Testament but not known as Jesus because he didn’t come to earth yet.

Jesus is NOT HIS OWN FATHER. It does not matter how many time you repeat that nonsense.

I have already demonstrated, from scripture, that Jesus and His Father were together BEFORE all creation. Here it is AGAIN!

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm not MAD so need a lot of this explained and will ask a few clarifying questions, if permissible. Thanks you.
Where does the idea that "Peter's Apostleship was diminishing" come from?

There are a couple of things that come to mind immediately.

It is clear from the book of Acts that Luke was with Peter and the eleven right up until Acts 16. At that point, Luke left them and joined with Paul and those with him. See my blog: https://theologyonline.com/blogs/right-divider/2441281-

This also goes along with the fact that after Acts 15 Peter disappears from the book of Acts entirely. Not a single mention of Peter in Acts 16-28.

Very telling, I'd say.

 

[Right Divider]

Peter was speaking about how Jesus is the promise AS THE OLD TESTAMENT SAID WOULD COME IN THE FUTURE. The future was when Jesus came.

Absolute nonsense. Invented to make your fairy tale come true.

You are perverse.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Where does the idea that "Peter's Apostleship was diminishing" come from?

Do a chapter by chapter analysis of the Book of Acts, examining how many times Peter's name is mentioned in each chapter versus Paul's name.

You'll find that Acts starts out with Peter being mentioned quite a lot, but by the end of Acts, he's nowhere to be found, and that prior to Acts 8, Paul is not mentioned once, but by the end of Acts, it's all Paul, wall-to-wall.

Acts 1: Peter = 2, Paul = 0
Acts 2: Peter = 3, Paul = 0
Acts 3: Peter = 6, Paul = 0
Acts 4: Peter = 3, Paul = 0
Acts 5: Peter = 4, Paul = 0
Acts 6: Peter = 0, Paul = 0
Acts 7: Peter = 0, Paul = 1
Acts 8: Peter = 2, Paul = 2
Acts 9: Peter = 6, Paul = 10
Acts 10: Peter = 16, Paul = 0
Acts 11: Peter = 4, Paul = 2
Acts 12: Peter = 10, Paul = 1
Acts 13: Peter = 0, Paul = 12
Acts 14: Peter = 0, Paul = 6
Acts 15: Peter = 1, Paul = 9
Acts 16: Peter = 0, Paul = 11
Acts 17: Peter = 0, Paul = 9
Acts 18: Peter = 0, Paul = 6
Acts 19: Peter = 0, Paul = 9
Acts 20: Peter = 0, Paul = 6
Acts 21: Peter = 0, Paul = 10
Acts 22: Peter = 0, Paul = 6
Acts 23: Peter = 0, Paul = 16
Acts 24: Peter = 0, Paul = 6
Acts 25: Peter = 0, Paul = 9
Acts 26: Peter = 0, Paul = 7
Acts 27: Peter = 0, Paul = 9
Acts 28: Peter = 0, Paul = 7

:think:

​ Isn't this more about the difference in how they were chosen rather than the difference in message?

:think:

If there were already twelve apostles (Matthias being chosen to replace Judas) to sit on the twelve thrones to rule over the twelve tribes of Israel, then why Paul at all? The fact that he was chosen to be the Apostle to the Gentiles already shows a change in dispensations.

I think I get this, having read some MAD threads in the past, but how are the two gospels the same as well as different?

The fact that there are similarities, but yet also differences, should tell you that they by definition are different.

Is there a chart?

Not sure if there is, but I recommend reading Cornelius Stam's Things That Differ if you haven't already.

I'm looking for both to understand the context of these two being different as well as the significance. I'd think every MAD knows this already, but as this seems to be an informative thread, I'm simply trying to help elicit the meaning and significance for believers (gentiles specifically, but Jews also, as it applies). Again, I believe I've the gist on this but for the posterity of the thread, I ask.

1 Peter2: ²⁴ He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. I need this explained, are you saying that sin isn't forgiven under Peter's gospel, until the Lord returns? If not..continuing just below...

Salvation for Israel is not quite the same thing as it is for the Body of Christ.

Salvation for the Jews is an eternal kingdom where Christ will rule forever as their King.

Salvation for the Body of Christ is eternal life through Jesus christ our Lord.

What specifically is the same and what is different, as MAD understands it?

How long was this Peter's message? All through Acts, or did this change after Acts 10,11 when the gentile Cornelius and his whole household were saved? Was there any marked change between the two, as far as MAD goes?

See above.

The martyrdom of Stephen is when God decided to switch programs for a while, but the actual switch didn't occur until two chapters later, when Paul humbled himself before Christ.

When MAD says "Gospel" do they mean 'salvation?'

Gospel means good news.

There are many "good news"s in the Bible.

Are they intertwined identical terms? Is/was the Jew saved by the saving work on the cross? What significance does this play for MAD theology?


A lot of Jews are looking for a different kind of Messiah today. Does any 'difference' in good news legitimize Israel's current rejection of Jesus as messiah?

In Acts15:1-21 The gospel wasn't different,

Which one?

but the application for all believers as they discussed the difference between being a Jew following Christ, and the gentile, following Him. Interestingly, Acts 15:21 says that 'they' (gentiles) have synagogues in their own cities which could lead us to confirm that some Jewish teaching was yet important for gentiles.

Well, not necessarily. I would think the simplest explanation was that there were Jews who had built synagogues in gentile areas (as part of the Diaspora)

On this, I agree with MAD, but it'd be good to discuss this point for many churches today are still trying to earn salvation, rather than realizing as new wineskins, we are remade with new wine.


In what sense do Jews need the saving work of Christ in their lives?

Currently? or before the change in dispensations?

Is it possible for an unregenerate Jew to inherit the Kingdom? Further, why is 'land' good news (gospel) for a Jew? Wouldn't salvation in Christ be the ultimate gospel for all men? Again, some of this I'm familiar with, but am asking some questions simply because I believe they will 1) create better listeners and 2) help MAD articulate what is needed for such discussions. Thanks. -Lon

 

[Right Divider]

The fact that there are similarities, but yet also differences, should tell you that they by definition are different.

I've said this before, but I think that it needs repeating...

The "one gospel" folks always see similarities and call them the same... then they completely ignore all differences.

Not sure if there is, but I recommend reading Cornelius Stam's Things That Differ if you haven't already.

Stam's book Acts: Dispensationally Considered is also excellent and appropriate here.

 

[God's Truth]

Jehovah's Witnesses say the same thing.

No they do not say that they got their beliefs from Jesus. This is the people they got their beliefs from:
Charles Taze Russell—founder of the Bible Student movement—and successive presidents of the Watch Tower Society, Joseph Franklin Rutherford, and Nathan Homer Knorr

You got your beliefs from men too, just like the JW's.

Nope... Mine comes for the Bible plainly and simply. Yours is a convoluted mess.

That is what yours is: different gospels, division of the Lord; different times for different people. hahahaha

You even have convoluted all the languages of the world when you say 'repent' doesn't mean what it says; and, the word 'gospel' into 'one of many gospels'; and the singular word 'God' into 'Gods' when you say there is a different and separate persons making one God.

You are like all those false denominations.

The JW's have to make a different Bible, and the Catholics have to have a Catechism, and they too change all the languages of the world when they say 'venerate' doesn't mean 'worship'.

Yikes, get out of your falseness.

Jesus is NOT HIS OWN FATHER. It does not matter how many time you repeat that nonsense.

You are the one who said it was Jesus speaking in the Old Testament! hahahahaha

I have already demonstrated, from scripture, that Jesus and His Father were together BEFORE all creation. Here it is AGAIN!

Too late because you already admitted that it was Jesus speaking in the Old Testament.

 

[God's Truth]

The entire Bible is "what Jesus says".

That is right, it is JESUS speaking in the Old Testament. Note how many times Jesus is called 'Father' in the Old Testament.

 

[God's Truth]

There are a couple of things that come to mind immediately.

It is clear from the book of Acts that Luke was with Peter and the eleven right up until Acts 16. At that point, Luke left them and joined with Paul and those with him. See my blog: https://theologyonline.com/blogs/right-divider/2441281-

This also goes along with the fact that after Acts 15 Peter disappears from the book of Acts entirely. Not a single mention of Peter in Acts 16-28.

Very telling, I'd say.

Maybe because the person writing Acts was LUKE, and LUKE WENT WITH PAUL.

 

[God's Truth]

Absolute nonsense. Invented to make your fairy tale come true.

You are perverse.

That is what you are calling the Bible. I even gave you scripture from Paul that says the times of refreshing had come when the Holy Spirit was given to those who had faith with obedience for Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

That is what you are calling the Bible. I even gave you scripture from Paul that says the times of refreshing had come when the Holy Spirit was given to those who had faith with obedience for Jesus.

No, I believe the Bible. I don't believe your mashed mess of a fairy tale.

 

[God's Truth]

No, I believe the Bible. I don't believe your mashed mess of a fairy tale.

This is about Jesus being explained to the Israelites.

Acts 3:17“Now, fellow Israelites, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did your leaders. 18But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’


Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.


We can see from the scriptures that speaking in tongues was prophesied about in the Old Testament, that the Lord would speak to the Jews, as stated in Isaiah 28. In the New Testament, we can see that this is a fulfilled prophecy, as confirmed by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.


It is a time of refreshing when one is saved, they receive the Holy Spirit. We must be saved before Jesus comes again.


Peter was speaking about what the OLD TESTAMENT said. The Old Testament is the past. The Old Testament is past and spoke about the future and Peter explained that it is about Jesus.

Jesus gave the promised Holy Spirit and people spoke in tongues as the sign to the Jews that the TIMES OF REFRESHING HAD COME AND IT IS THROUGH JESUS.

 

[Right Divider]

It is a time of refreshing when one is saved, they receive the Holy Spirit. We must be saved before Jesus comes again.

Your wild equivocations and stretches of imagination are hilarious.

 

[God's Truth]

Your wild equivocations and stretches of imagination are hilarious.

I gave scriptures that SAY what I said they say.

Just look at what you do, you hide from the scriptures. You quoted not one that I posted and you didn't explain not one.

You hide from them, just like a little...hider.

 

[Right Divider]

I gave scriptures that SAY what I said they say.

No, you try to make them say what you want them to say.

Just look at what you do, you hide from the scriptures. You quoted not one that I posted and you didn't explain not one.

You hide from them, just like a little...hider.

You are an immature little child.

Instead of your shotgun approach to everything, start with this ONE THING. You do NOT understand the nature of Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ was WITH HIS FATHER before ALL CREATION. Jesus is NOT HIS OWN FATHER.

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[God's Truth]

No, you try to make them say what you want them to say.


You are an immature little child.

Instead of your shotgun approach to everything, start with this ONE THING. You do NOT understand the nature of Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ was WITH HIS FATHER before ALL CREATION. Jesus is NOT HIS OWN FATHER.

I've explained it to you many times, so what do you mean "start with this..."?

You definitely are a hider.

 

[Right Divider]

I've explained it to you many times, so what do you mean "start with this..."?

You definitely are a hider.

The Lord Jesus Christ was WITH HIS FATHER before ALL CREATION. Jesus is NOT HIS OWN FATHER.

Joh 17:5 KJV And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus did not "become" the Son of God.