Paul's gospel started late....

[Derf]

Already have many times.

Yes, but you have also started many threads like this one, so it seems like you want to regurgitate it.

 

[Lon]

Sounds like the Good News of the crucifixion.

DBR altogether. The crucifixion is indeed 'our' good news (penalty for sin) that Jesus took. It is sobering, and incredible love. He was buried and rose conquering sin and the grave and giving life everlasting.

That's Paul's Gospel, no?

Part but Paul was very clear on a pointed difference:

Would you like to give us a synopsis of Paul's gospel so we can compare?

Grace + nothing = Salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 One way it is said: Grace alone saves, Saving Grace that saves is not alone. It is a cart before horse consideration. We don't do works to get or keep salvation, we do works because we are recreated to do them as part and parcel of our saved and Spirit dwelled lives.

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Compare this to James "Faith without works is dead." Paul takes care of James' gospel understanding by putting the cart after the horse rather than before. James is talking about saving faith, but Paul gives the gospel in clarity including how works falls into place. Neither Paul nor James were arguing for works salvation, but rather James was talking to Jews about continuing to keep the Law for Jews. Acts 15:1-35

 

[glorydaz]

1st Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

"the Scripture" Isaiah 53. There's even the repeating 5 3. 15:3 and 53.

Isaiah 53 is clearly about Christ dying for our sins, 1st Corinthians 15:3 says "Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures". That's Isaiah 53. It's others, but it's Isaiah 53 anyway.

Which he calls "the gospel which I preached unto you" 1st Corinthians 15:1

Yes, indeed, and when you read it further, you find more.

This gospel of Jesus Christ is all throughout scripture. Most don’t bother to look.

Isaiah 53: 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.​

(Speaking of 15:1, there are 151 Psalms in the Catholic Bible btw. Luther removed a Psalm, plus seven books of your Old Testament. Poof, disappeared, gone forever. He exercised that divine power, to decide on the table of contents in the Scripture. So you always have to remember if you're an Evangelical reading your Lutheran Bible with the Lutheran table of contents, that you have imbued Luther with this divine power, simply by using his table of contents. You recognize his power to do that, when you read his abbreviated Bible, with the altered table of contents—you approve it, you approbate it. That's divine power and you just give it to him for some reason. Just bear it in mind is all.)

I’ll have to disagree on this one. The Bible is stronger than Luther, and nothing has been removed from God’s holy word. Proof by men is simply nothing.

 

[glorydaz]

Would you like to give us a synopsis of Paul's gospel so we can compare?

Paul had Scripture…..all of scripture, and he quoted it often. What Paul did was serve it up in a new way so that the gentiles could digest it.

 

[Right Divider]

Paul's gospel was a secret until God revealed it to Paul.

Some of you can fight that fact all that you want... you lose.

Rom 16:25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, ​

​

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

 

[Derf]

Paul's gospel was a secret until God revealed it to Paul.

Some of you can fight that fact all that you want... you lose.

Rom 16:25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, ​

​

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

In neither of those citations was the gospel what was hidden. Rather:
Ephesians 3:6 KJV — That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

How do we know this? It starts in the previous verses:
Ephesians 3:3-5 KJV — How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (...) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Note that the mystery wasn't revealed to Paul only but to "his holy apostles" (plural) "and prophets". Though it was first revealed unto Paul.

Your view is bankrupt, if it refuses to acknowledge that the two groups are fellowheirs in Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

Paul's gospel was a secret until God revealed it to Paul.

Some of you can fight that fact all that you want... you lose.

Rom 16:25 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, ​

But you missed the important part. That all important AND….by the prophets.

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: ​

​

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

​

This is the perfect example of why we need to take in the whole word of God. Paul constantly states, “As it is written”. It was always there, but Paul was sent to point out where it was found. Paul merely opened the veil, so to speak.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is for all men.

Mark 1:

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.​

 

[Right Divider]

But you missed the important part. That all important AND….by the prophets.

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: ​

Classic mistake on YOUR part.

The AND is NOT connecting the mystery... it is connecting the STABLISHMENT in Christ.

Rom 16:25-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

It breaks like this:

Stablishment by:

1. according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery
2. by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

To know the FULL picture, we must understand BOTH what was said by the scriptures of the prophets (already known at that time) AND the NEW and theretofore unknown mystery given to Paul.

You seem to have missed the BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST... it was made such by God giving it to Paul whereas it was previously HID IN GOD.

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

HID IN GOD is NOT "hide in the scripture of the prophets".

This is the perfect example of why we need to take in the whole word of God. Paul constantly states, “As it is written”.

He never says that about HIS gospel!

It was always there,

No, it was NOT!

but Paul was sent to point out where it was found. Paul merely opened the veil, so to speak.

HID IS GOD is NOT in the scripture or anywhere else.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is for all men.

Mark 1:

1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.​

Clearly Paul is NOT talking about the same thing if PAUL says that the "beginning of the gospel" was when PAUL departed from Macedonia.

Phil 4:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:15) Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.​

You are rebelling against the scripture.

 

[glorydaz]

Classic mistake on YOUR part.

The AND is NOT connecting the mystery... it is connecting the STABLISHMENT in Christ.

Rom 16:25-26 (AKJV/PCE)​

(16:25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, (16:26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

It breaks like this:

Stablishment by:

1. according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery
2. by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

To know the FULL picture, we must understand BOTH what was said by the scriptures of the prophets (already known at that time) AND the NEW and theretofore unknown mystery given to Paul.

You seem to have missed the BUT NOW IS MADE MANIFEST... it was made such by God giving it to Paul whereas it was previously HID IN GOD.

Eph 3:9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(3:9) And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

HID IN GOD is NOT "hide in the scripture of the prophets".


He never says that about HIS gospel!

No, it was NOT!

HID IS GOD is NOT in the scripture or anywhere else.

Clearly Paul is NOT talking about the same thing if PAUL says that the "beginning of the gospel" was when PAUL went to Macedonia.

Phil 4:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:15) Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.​

You are rebelling against the scripture.

No, I’m rebelling against your doctrine, and I’m aware you don’t like it. Unfortunately, you are reading your understanding into what is written. I know because I was doing the same thing at one point.

The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is the same Gospel Paul preached except Paul was sent to the Gentiles. It just went to the Jew first. It’s called being hidden in plain sight. You say the prophets were already known at that time, but people didn’t understand them until they saw prophecy being revealed right before their eyes. That’s why it was now being made manifest. They saw the healings, and they heard that voice crying in the wilderness. What the prophets foretold was coming to pass. That the Messiah would come…that suffering servant.

So exactly what are you saying was hidden?

 

[Right Divider]

No, I’m rebelling against your doctrine, and I’m aware you don’t like it.

I don't care if you want to remain in the wrong.

Unfortunately, you are reading your understanding into what is written.

Nope. I'm reading it exactly as written.

I know because I was doing the same thing at one point.

So you went from right to wrong. That's the wrong direction.

The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ is the same Gospel Paul preached except Paul was sent to the Gentiles. It just went to the Jew first. It’s called being hidden in plain sight.

That is you reading your doctrine into the scripture.

You say the prophets were already known at that time, but people didn’t understand them until they saw prophecy being revealed right before their eyes.

HID IN GOD is NOT in the scripture. I don't know why you cannot see that.

So exactly what are you saying was hidden?

The gospel that Paul preached. The mystery of Christ, KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN.
The dispensation of the grace of God given to and through Paul by the risen and ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't care if you want to remain in the wrong.

Nope. I'm reading it exactly as written.

So you went from right to wrong. That's the wrong direction.

That is you reading your doctrine into the scripture.

HID IN GOD is NOT in the scripture. I don't know why you cannot see that.

The gospel that Paul preached. The mystery of Christ, KEPT SECRET SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN.
The dispensation of the grace of God given to and through Paul by the risen and ascended Lord Jesus Christ.

Oh that dispensation of grace given to Abraham? What exactly did the risen and ascended Lord give to Paul that had not already been revealed in the holy scriptures? What in particular? I understand you don’t like me questioning your conclusions, but, so far, I’m getting nothing concrete.

 

[glorydaz]

Think about it.
Hid in God is revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Hid with Christ in God.
The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is when Christ appeared on the scene. Mark 1

 

[Right Divider]

Think about it.
Hid in God is revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ. Hid with Christ in God.
The beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is when Christ appeared on the scene. Mark 1

Think about it.
That is NOT what Paul says. Your disagreement is with Paul (and scripture) and not me.

Phil 4:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:15) Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.​

 

[Derf]

Think about it.
That is NOT what Paul says. Your disagreement is with Paul (and scripture) and not me.

Phil 4:15 (AKJV/PCE)​

(4:15) Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.​

You keep bringing this up, but what was "the beginning of the gospel"? Surely you don't think it was when Paul was leaving Macedonia, do you? In other words, the Macedonians didn't hear the gospel, because it only began when Paul was departing? So what was Paul preaching the whole time he was in Macedonia? And remember that Philippi is "the chief city" of Macedonia, according to Acts 17, and it was the FIRST city Paul went to in Macedonia. Therefore, the Philippians, including the jailer who was converted to Christ by Paul and Silas, since they were at the beginning of Paul's visit to Macedonia, did not hear the gospel. And remember that Silas was Paul's second partner in ministry, so the first partner, Barnabas, was not helping Paul with the gospel, since it had not begun yet, in your view.

Of course, this will all sound ridiculous to you, but that's what you are preaching. And it sounds ridiculous to us, too.

Rather, this beginning Paul speaks of is obviously the time when Paul first went to Macedonia to share the same gospel he had shared in other places with Silas, and other places with Barnabas before that. Therefore, there were several beginnings of the same gospel, as Paul reached places it had never been preached before.

 

[glorydaz]

You keep bringing this up, but what was "the beginning of the gospel"? Surely you don't think it was when Paul was leaving Macedonia, do you? In other words, the Macedonians didn't hear the gospel, because it only began when Paul was departing? So what was Paul preaching the whole time he was in Macedonia? And remember that Philippi is "the chief city" of Macedonia, according to Acts 17, and it was the FIRST city Paul went to in Macedonia. Therefore, the Philippians, including the jailer who was converted to Christ by Paul and Silas, since they were at the beginning of Paul's visit to Macedonia, did not hear the gospel. And remember that Silas was Paul's second partner in ministry, so the first partner, Barnabas, was not helping Paul with the gospel, since it had not begun yet, in your view.

Of course, this will all sound ridiculous to you, but that's what you are preaching. And it sounds ridiculous to us, too.

Rather, this beginning Paul speaks of is obviously the time when Paul first went to Macedonia to share the same gospel he had shared in other places with Silas, and other places with Barnabas before that. Therefore, there were several beginnings of the same gospel, as Paul reached places it had never been preached before.

Excellent.