ECT Paradigm Shift

[iamaberean]

So, how come it reigned over all irrespective of their righteous standing before God because Adam sinned?

First,
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Here is what happened though:
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
The books were opened to judge the dead Jews. How do we know, because the books are the old testament, law, and the book of how they lived their life.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
The sea is the dead Gentiles, they were not judged by the law but, never the less, they were judged by their works.

 

[Danoh]

I mean this as an observation.

You did not answer his question, IAB.

Rather; you answered some other.

I continually find said practice as one par for the course within Preterism.

Why is it you and yours never see this; nor that it is the very basis of the error that resulted in Preterism to begin with?

May you one day free yourself of this basic error.

 

[iamaberean]

I mean this as an observation.

You did not answer his question, IAB.

Rather; you answered some other.

I continually find said practice as one par for the course within Preterism.

Why is it you and yours never see this; nor that it is the very basis of the error that resulted in Preterism to begin with?

May you one day free yourself of this basic error.

The first scripture I quoted was the fact there are no righteous men, never have been. The bible doesn't say why but just the fact that man, no man is righteous.

 

[Danoh]

His question was "So, how come it reigned over all irrespective of their righteous standing before God because Adam sinned?"

It was not about where the lost end up, who they are, or what those books they will be judged on are.

Why has death continue to reign over those God has accounted righteous?

The answer is because God is both still using that as a witnesss that all might consider their mortality, at the same time that He is bringing glory to Himself in said, subject to physical death, earthen vessels.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

 

[iamaberean]

His question was "So, how come it reigned over all irrespective of their righteous standing before God because Adam sinned?"

It was not about where the lost end up, who they are, or what those books they will be judged on are.

Why has death continue to reign over those God has accounted righteous?

The answer is because God is both still using that as a witnesss that all might consider their mortality, at the same time that He is bringing glory to Himself in said, subject to physical death, earthen vessels.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. 4:8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 4:9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. 4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. 4:12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you.

If one can not see or understand a single scripture, how can they ever see the whole picture?

 

[Danoh]

If one can not see or understand a single scripture, how can they ever see the whole picture?

That is exactly how you ended up a Preterist like your pal, Tel-a-lie.

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...tai-Questions-the-Mid-Acts-View-Cannot-Answer

 

[iamaberean]

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

The disciples ask Jesus a very direct question, and Jesus gave a direct answer. It was given to the disciples to understand and to others it is not given.
Does that apply to any of us today? Yes, it does. Let us take a look at this parable.

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mat 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Blessed are the disciples, for they see and hear.

Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
God had never reviled these things to the prophets of old.

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
The seed that soweth is Jesus, the good seed are the believers and the tares are the unbelievers.
The field is the
'world' (Greek word for 'world' here is 'Kosmos' - earth).

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
The devil sowed the tare and the harvest is the end of the
'world' (Greek word for 'world' here is 'aion' - age). The harvest would come at the end of the age.
What 'age' were the disciples living in? The age of Law.
May I ask you "Can you Hear or See anything yet?"

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The unbelievers would be gathered and burned in the fire at the end of the 'world' - aion - 'age'.

Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

I will stop right here to just to explain the fire at the end of the age. I will do another post on it.

Jesus told his disciples that their generation would see the end of the age of law. The temple and Jerusalem would be destroyed. That happened in 70 AD when the city and the temple were destroyed by fire. Does that fit the parable? It does, for the tares, unbelievers, were controlling the city and the temple. There were no Christians killed there, for they had been told to flee.

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
When they would 'see' and 'hear' let them flee.

May I ask you again "Can you Hear or See the difference in what you have been taught as compared to the Word of God?"

 

[iamaberean]

Read a little bit about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2870_CE%29

 

[whitestone]

Read a little bit about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD. btw The Roman that led his army was Titus, whose numerical number is '666'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2870_CE%29

So those who were in the Jewish wars,(Jews), if they printed their own money and rebelled against Rome why do you think that they worshiped Rome(i.e.worshiped the image) or used his money to buy and sell(although they refused to use his money)when they revolted against Rome?

 

[Danoh]

Read a little bit about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD. btw The Roman that led his army was Titus, whose numerical number is '666'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%2870_CE%29

Consider that you were fine in getting some of those passages right only to end up reading ideas foreign to them into them as you have just advised others should do by your advice to look to external sources for help.

At the very least; the thing to do, is to temporarily put away the external sources, go back to the passages and there diligently seek to be a Berean workman - one that need not be found ashamed in his conclusions in these matters.

I mean, you even saw how that some passages were able to shed further light on others. Stick to that; refuse to go to external sources so quickly.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

That is to be our guide as to the basis of our conclusions and their assertions.

 

[iamaberean]

Consider that you were fine in getting some of those passages right only to end up reading ideas foreign to them into them as you have just advised others should do by your advice to look to external sources for help.

The bible is silent about the actual destruction of Jerusalem so when history confirms prophecy, I will use it.
For those that are interested, read the books, Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus. The pdf version can be downloaded here:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/images/josephus/1737_whiston_english/1737_whiston_english.pdf

 

[tetelestai]

So those who were in the Jewish wars,(Jews), if they printed their own money and rebelled against Rome why do you think that they worshiped Rome(i.e.worshiped the image) or used his money to buy and sell(although they refused to use his money)when they revolted against Rome?

As of 64AD, Jerusalem was the third wealthiest city in the world. Per capita, it was THE wealthiest city in the world.

The Jews had stored up money and gold in the temple.

Because of their love of money, they had rejected the Messiah God had sent to them.

When the war was over, Titus set up ensigns of Vespasian at the temple. Anyone who did not worship the ensigns was killed.

John saw the "beast" being worshipped at the temple, and he saw anyone not worshipping the beast being killed.

 

[Danoh]

For those that are interested, read the books, Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus. The pdf version can be downloaded here:

http://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/images/josephus/1737_whiston_english/1737_whiston_english.pdf

By all means; just don't OVER RELY on such things.

And Scripture interprets Scripture - NOT - SECULAR writings, NOR EXTERNAL writings based on an OVER RELIANCE ON SECULAR sources.

BUT this is a perspective difficult to grasp for those who have years in such a spiritually poor diet.

They have long since made having to season all their food with reprocessed salt.

No thanks, I Am, you can keep your reprocessed spiritual diet, bro; not my cup of tea.

 

[whitestone]

As of 64AD, Jerusalem was the third wealthiest city in the world. Per capita, it was THE wealthiest city in the world.

The Jews had stored up money and gold in the temple.

Because of their love of money, they had rejected the Messiah God had sent to them.

When the war was over, Titus set up ensigns of Vespasian at the temple. Anyone who did not worship the ensigns was killed.

John saw the "beast" being worshipped at the temple, and he saw anyone not worshipping the beast being killed.

Agreed, those who were completely slain,destroyed in the Jewish wars between ad66-70 did not worship anything before ad70 that fulfilled those scriptures because as you say it was not set up until "afterward".

 

[tetelestai]

Agreed, those who were completely slain,destroyed in the Jewish wars between ad66-70 did not worship anything before ad70

It depends if you mean literally or spiritually, or both.

Prior to the destruction, the Christ rejecting Jews worshipped money (idolatry)

(Luke 16:44) The Pharisees, who loved money, heard all this and were sneering at Jesus.

This love of money by the Pharisees and other Jews led to them killing Jesus.

that fulfilled those scriptures because as you say it was not set up until "afterward".

Nero's image was on the Roman coins. The Pharisees and Jews were lovers of money (Luke 16:44). Therefore, their love of money (Roman coins with Nero on them) led to a "worship" (idolatry) of the beast.

View attachment 24116

Your going to claim they rebelled, started minting their own coins, etc.

While that's true, it was too late. AND, after the destruction the beast was literally worshipped at the temple.

 

[whitestone]

As of 64AD, Jerusalem was the third wealthiest city in the world. Per capita, it was THE wealthiest city in the world.

The Jews had stored up money and gold in the temple.

Because of their love of money, they had rejected the Messiah God had sent to them.

When the war was over, Titus set up ensigns of Vespasian at the temple. Anyone who did not worship the ensigns was killed.

John saw the "beast" being worshipped at the temple, and he saw anyone not worshipping the beast being killed.

No point in you wondering what I meant when I agreed. I agreed they did not use Roman money at the time when they were destroyed in ad70 that they had minted their own https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Jewish_Revolt_coinage ,,,,,so you said in this post that they did not and so I agree.

Then you said that Titus "when the war was over" set up ensigns which proves that those who were in the walls of Jerusalem before ad70 were not obeying it and were killed.

So as you know I said that they did not use the money of Caesar that they printed their own(Revelation 13:15-17 KJV)and so you said the same thing that I said ("they didn't take Caesars mark,and they died because they were revolting instead of obeying) so I agreed,,,

 

[iamaberean]

Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Dispensations is a doctrine of men.

 

[iamaberean]

I will be posting more on other subjects from the preterist perspective but if you would like information on a subject, just ask and if I have any points I will respond.

 

[iamaberean]

Do you read the Bible as if it was written to you? If you do, you will not be able to understand it. Plain and simple.

Do you read the Bible as if it is for your understanding of God? If you do, all things will become clear to you! This is hermeneutics.

 

[iamaberean]

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jn 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

If one believes that Jesus came in the flesh, they should also be able to hear what the Apostles say.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He did not come to the lost Gentiles!