Pagan Mary Worship

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Nowhere, in Scripture does Jesus say, "worship my mama". None of the Apostles had believed in worshiping Many. Paul never said a Christian needed to pray to Mary. The Catholic church, following pagan goddesses worship began Many worship and saying the "Hail Mary" on Rosary beads.

Instead: The Bible warns us against use of prayer beads –
Matthew 6:7 says – “But when ye pray, use not vain
repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that
they shall be heard for their much speaking.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Nowhere, in Scripture does Jesus say, "worship my mama". None of the Apostles had believed in worshiping Many.....
Amen to that. I can happily say that Catholics only worship God, and God alone.

....The Catholic church, following pagan goddesses worship began Many worship and saying the "Hail Mary" on Rosary beads.......
ROFL! Not only is that ignorant, and not only is that a lie, but it makes other ignorant lies look intelligent.

"Hail, Mary" IS SCRIPTURE!! "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee": This is a direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:28. (Although some translations render it differently, such as "hail favored one", or similar translations, "full of grace" come from the Latin "gratia plena", from the original Latin Vulgate, and faithfully represents the original Greek.)

....Instead: The Bible warns us against use of prayer beads.....
No it doesn't.

....Matthew 6:7 says – “But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking......

You know, when you quote anti-Catholic propaganda without doing your own reserarch first, you really end up looking stupid. This is no exception.

Not all repetition is vain. Did you consider the prayers spoken of in Revelation 4:8 offered day and night without ceasing: "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!" Another repetitious prayer pleasing to God is contained in Psalm 136: "For his steadfast love endures for ever." This phrase is repeated over twenty-five times. Finally, Matthew 26:44 tells us that Jesus himself prayed the same prayer three times in the garden in Gethsemane.

Here is a nice little post of mine from long ago:

CatholicCrusader said:
I read another thread that basically said the Rosary is unscriptural, or words to that effect. Very sad, and wrong. Aside from the Apostles Creed, the three main prayers of the Rosary are the Lord's Prayer, the Glory Be, and the Hail Mary. The only prayer I can think of that non-Catholics would have an issue with would be the Hail Mary, so this thread is a simple thread to point out how the Hail Mary is a totally Bible-based prayer. It goes:

Hail Mary, Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.



So let us break it down into four parts:

1) Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: This is a direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:28. (Although some translations render it differently, such as "hail favored one", or similar translations, "full of grace" come from the Latin "gratia plena", from the original Latin Vulgate, and faithfully represents the original Greek.)

2) Blessed are thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus: Another direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:42

3) Holy Mary, mother of God: Christ is God incarnete, and since Mary bore Jesus - who is God - in her womb, she is rightly called the Mother of God: "Theotokos", or "God-bearer". Remember what Elizabeth said: "And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?" Luke 1:43

4) pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen: Revelation 5:8 shows that the saints in heaven do actively intercede for us, and in 1 Timothy 2:1-4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for each other since such prayers are "pleasing to God". Since Paul says that death does not seperate us from God, it is good to ask our departed brothers and sisters to pray for us the same way we would ask those on earth to pray for us. After all, "the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16 (KJV). So, the culmination of this prayer is a simple request, which is to ask a fellow Christian to pray for us. Very Biblical.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Praying to Mary to pray for us makes no sense when one should pray to God alone. The Catholic church covers a multitude of sins, One being the cleric hierarchy. Paul never said pray to me to pray for you.

Luke 1:28 does not mean Christians should play to Mary for them, or tell God, they are good people. You are using Scripture out of context, and then trying to make a matter of research out of what is written in Scripture. It will not do.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned

Do Catholics Pray "Vain Repetitions?"

By Tim Staples - SOURCE LINK

(USED WITH PERMISSION)

As a young Protestant, this was one of my favorites to ask Catholics. “Why do Catholics pray ‘repetitious prayer’ like the Rosary when Jesus says not to pray ‘vain repetitions’ in Matthew 6:7?”

I think we should begin here by quoting the actual text of Matt. 6:7:

And in praying do not heap up empty phrases (“vain repetitions” in KJV) as the Gentiles do; for they think that they will be heard for their many words.​

Notice the context? Jesus said “do not heap up ‘empty phrases’ (Gr. –battalagesete, which means to stammer, babble, prate, or to repeat the same things over and over mindlessly) as the Gentiles do…” We have to remember that the main idea of prayer and sacrifice among the pagans was to appease the gods so that you could go on with your own life. You had to be careful to “take care of” all of the gods by mentioning them, and saying all the right words, lest you bring a curse upon yourself.

And remember as well, the gods themselves were immoral at times! They were selfish, cruel, vengeful etc. The pagans would say their incantations, offer their sacrifice, but there was no real connection between the moral life and the prayer. Jesus is saying that this will not cut it in the New Covenant Kingdom of God! One must pray from a heart of repentance and submission to God’s will. But does Jesus mean to exclude the possibility of devotions like the Rosary or the Divine Mercy Chaplet which repeat prayers? No, he does not. This becomes evident when in the very next verses of Matthew 6, Jesus says:

Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this: Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors; And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father also will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.​

Jesus gave us a prayer to recite! But notice the emphasis on living the words of the prayer! This is a prayer to be recited, but they are neither “empty phrases” nor “vain repetitions.”

Examples of Biblical “Repetitious Prayer”

Consider the prayers of the angels in Revelation 4:8:

And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”​

These “four living creatures” refer back to four angels, or “Seraphim,” that Isaiah saw as revealed in Is. 6:1-3 about 800 years earlier, and guess what they were praying?

In the year that King Uzzi’ah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and his train filled the temple. Above him stood the seraphim; each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called to another and said: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory.”​

Someone needs to inform these angels about “vain repetition!” According to many of our Protestant friends, especially Fundamentalists, they need to knock it off and pray something different! They’d been praying like that for ca. 800 years!

I say that tongue and cheek, of course, because though we don’t understand fully “time” as it applies to angels, let’s just say they have been praying this way for a lot longer than just 800 years. How about longer than mankind has even existed! That’s a long time! There is obviously something more to Jesus’ words than just to say we should not pray the same words more than once or twice.

I challenge those skeptical of prayers like the Rosary to take a serious look at Psalm 136 and consider the fact that Jews and Christians have prayed these Psalms for thousands of years. Psalm 136 repeats the words “for his steadfast love endures for ever” 26 times in 26 verses!

Perhaps most importantly, we have Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, in Mark 14:32-39:

And they went to a place which was called Gethsemane; and he said to his disciples, “Sit here, while I pray.” And the took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled. And he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch.” And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. And he said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you; remove this chalice from me; yet not what I will, but what you will.” And he came and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter, ”Simon, are you asleep? Could you not watch one hour? Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptiation; the spirit indeed is weilling, but the flesh is weak.” And again he went away and prayed, saying the same words. And again, he came and found them sleeping… And he came a third time, and said to them, “Are you still sleeping…?”​

Our Lord was here praying for hours and saying "the same words." Is this “vain repetition?”

And not only do we have our Lord praying repetitious prayer, but he also commends it. In Luke 18:1-14, we read:


And he told them a parable, to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor regarded man; and there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, "Vindicate me against my adversary." For a while he refused; but afterward he said to himself, "Though I neither fear God nor regard man, yet because this widow bothers me, I will vindicate her, or she will wear me out by her continual coming." And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God vindicate his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will vindicate them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?" He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get." But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."​

Final Thoughts

Would any wife tell her husband, “Hey knock it off! You’ve already told me you loved me three times today! I don’t want to hear it any more!” I think not! The key here is that the words are from the heart, not the number of times they are said. I think that is Jesus’ emphasis. There are some words, like “I love you,” or like the “Our Father,” or the “Hail, Mary,” that you really can’t improve upon. The key is that we truly enter into the words so that they are coming from our hearts.

For those who do not know, the Rosary is not about "mindless repetition" so that God will hear us. We repeat the prayers of the Rosary to be sure, but we do so in order that we may keep our focus while we meditate upon the most important mysteries of the Faith. I find it to be a wonderful way for me to be able to focus on the Lord.

I find it ironic that as a former Protestant who prayed much, and many words, before I was Catholic, that it was far easier to drift into “vain repetition” when all I prayed was spontaneous prayers. My prayers often devolved into petition after petition, and yes, I tended to pray the same way, and the same words, over and over, over the years.

I have found praying liturgical prayer, and devotional prayers to have tremendous spiritual benefit. First, these prayers are either from Scripture, or from the greatest minds and souls who have ever walked the earth who have gone before us. They are theologically correct as well as spiritually rich. They free me from having to think about what I am going to say next and they allow me to really enter into my prayer, and into God. These prayers challenge me at times because of their spiritual depth while they keep me from reducing God to a cosmic bubble gum machine. “Give me, give me, give…”

In the end, I have found, the prayers, devotions, and meditations of the Catholic tradition actually save me from the “vain repetition” that Jesus warns about in the Gospel.

This does not mean that there is not a danger of mindlessly repeating the Rosary or other such devotions. There is. We must always stay on guard against that very real possibility. But if we do fall prey to “vain repetition” in prayer, it will not be because we are “saying the same words” over and over in prayer as our Lord did in Mark 14:39. It will be because we are not praying from the heart and truly entering into the great devotions Holy Mother Church provides for our spiritual nourishment.

If you enjoyed this and you want to dive deeper, click here.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for false doctrines to creep into the early Christian Church, and they were gradually introduced into the system. The Church became divided into the Catholic Church who accepted the pagan doctrines, and the true Christian Church who resisted Constantine’s indoctrination.
 

Nameless.In.Grace

BANNED
Banned
Pagan Mary Worship

Amen to that. I can happily say that Catholics only worship God, and God alone.


ROFL! Not only is that ignorant, and not only is that a lie, but it makes other ignorant lies look intelligent.

"Hail, Mary" IS SCRIPTURE!! "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee": This is a direct quote from scripture: Luke 1:28. (Although some translations render it differently, such as "hail favored one", or similar translations, "full of grace" come from the Latin "gratia plena", from the original Latin Vulgate, and faithfully represents the original Greek.)


No it doesn't.



You know, when you quote anti-Catholic propaganda without doing your own reserarch first, you really end up looking stupid. This is no exception.

Not all repetition is vain. Did you consider the prayers spoken of in Revelation 4:8 offered day and night without ceasing: "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!" Another repetitious prayer pleasing to God is contained in Psalm 136: "For his steadfast love endures for ever." This phrase is repeated over twenty-five times. Finally, Matthew 26:44 tells us that Jesus himself prayed the same prayer three times in the garden in Gethsemane.

Here is a nice little post of mine from long ago:



When Constantine married paganism and Christianity, the door was opened for false doctrines to creep into the early Christian Church, and they were gradually introduced into the system. The Church became divided into the Catholic Church who accepted the pagan doctrines, and the true Christian Church who resisted Constantine’s indoctrination.

I stand by CC on this matter.

The idea that we fight denomination against denomination is disgusting.

1 Corinthians 1:13 (HCSB)

13 Is Christ divided? Was it Paul who was crucified for you? Or were you baptized in Paul’s name?


Sent from my iPad using TOL ~Jesus is the Theology and the Counselor is the Commentary
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
I'll put Mother Theresa, John Paul II, Saint Francis, all the Sisters of Mercy, and millions of Catholic missionaries around the world up against the pinheads in this thread any day when it comes to Holiness and Godliness.
 

beameup

New member
It's "HOLY MARY, mother of God, blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb - Jesus"
When I hear this, it seems to be repeated 100 times. They play it in the Malls and hospitals around noon.
Very repetitive, and annoying.

Semiramis, who was both Nimrod's wife and Tammuz' mother, was worshiped as the "mother of god"
 

beameup

New member
They really believe that Mary gave birth to the creator of the Universe.

SICK, and most churches still believe it. SAD.

It's called the hypostatic-union. It is the union of God's DNA with the "seed (egg) of the woman", creating the protokos-monogenes God-Man. There is a MAN seated at the right-hand of the Majesty on High (ie: Father). To believe otherwise is apostasy.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
It's called the hypostatic-union. It is the union of God's DNA with the "seed (egg) of the woman", creating the protokos-monogenes God-Man. There is a MAN seated at the right-hand of the Majesty on High (ie: Father). To believe otherwise is apostasy.

hypostatic-union is Garbage. That's a Greek fable.

Jesus was a man that was given the express image of the Father, the spirit son of the most high.
 

keypurr

Well-known member
It's called the hypostatic-union. It is the union of God's DNA with the "seed (egg) of the woman", creating the protokos-monogenes God-Man. There is a MAN seated at the right-hand of the Majesty on High (ie: Father). To believe otherwise is apostasy.

It is the Son of Man that sits on the right of God.

The Son of Man is not a Man, He is a spirit.
 

beameup

New member
It is the Son of Man that sits on the right of God.

The Son of Man is not a Man, He is a spirit.

With that "theology" there cannot be a resurrection. So, what you are "preaching" is that you simply die and become food for the worms.
 
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