pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
This is a trend, [MENTION=13955]glorydaz[/MENTION] , this is a dance that winds up in the same place with almost every non-Trin user account with which I've ever the pleasure of interacting. Do you know how many Trinitarians have trouble with this simple question? Zero. Goose egg.
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Why do you think that those who don't believe in the trinity don't believe in the resurrection? Why wouldn't they? Just because we don't believe in the trinity doesn't mean we don't believe in the resurrection?

As I've said before, how can we be raised with Christ if Christ isn't raised? It would be foolishness not to believe in the resurrection. Without resurrection we have no life!
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lazy afternoon said:
Further than that--

If even 90% of the Christians here are still as they are now, then I do not want to go there either.



LA
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Most all of the believers here will not even be in the first resurrection, according to Paul--

Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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patrick jane said:
Are you saying that non Trins don't believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead?
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I'm saying, Why the hard time answering the question? It's real easy. Or it should be. I think many of them are afraid that their position is weakened if they admit they believe He is risen. And I think that those who are not afraid of that, are a different sort of non-Trin.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

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Nihilo said:
I'm saying, Why the hard time answering the question? It's real easy. Or it should be. I think many of them are afraid that their position is weakened if they admit they believe He is risen. And I think that those who are not afraid of that, are a different sort of non-Trin.
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I agree
 
Nihilo

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marhig said:
Why do you think that those who don't believe in the trinity don't believe in the resurrection? Why wouldn't they? Just because we don't believe in the trinity doesn't mean we don't believe in the resurrection?

As I've said before, how can we be raised with Christ if Christ isn't raised? It would be foolishness not to believe in the resurrection. Without resurrection we have no life!
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You're the exception that proves the rule. :salute:
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
I'm saying, Why the hard time answering the question? It's real easy. Or it should be. I think many of them are afraid that their position is weakened if they admit they believe He is risen. And I think that those who are not afraid of that, are a different sort of non-Trin.
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But why would not believing in the trinity be linked with not believing in the resurrection? I don't understand that. There's no reason for someone who is not a Trinitarian, not to believe in the resurrection?

What's the link? Thanks
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
You're the exception that proves the rule. :salute:
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There shouldn't be any exception, the Bible is clear, Jesus is risen, if Jesus isn't risen then we still dead to him, dead in our sins.

1 Corinthians 15

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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marhig said:
There shouldn't be any exception, the Bible is clear, Jesus is risen, if Jesus isn't risen then we still dead to him, dead in our sins.

1 Corinthians 15

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins
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:) You're preaching to the choir, bud! That's why I said you're the exception. :)
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
:) You're preaching to the choir, bud! That's why I said you're the exception. :)
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Please don't think I'm going on, but I've never heard anyone say this before, if someone doesn't believe that Christ is risen, what do they believe? Thanks.
 
Nihilo

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marhig said:
But why would not believing in the trinity be linked with not believing in the resurrection? I don't understand that. There's no reason for someone who is not a Trinitarian, not to believe in the resurrection?

What's the link? Thanks
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I don't know! I was surprised to find it. You bring up the Resurrection, and non-Trins scatter like spooked deer. You're the exception so far, I'm sure there are others, maybe [MENTION=4651]kmoney[/MENTION] for instance, others, but there's already a healthy contingent of non-Trins who run from that question, they consider it some sort of invasion of their privacy to ask, rather than just a simple easy question, which it is, for Christians who believe in the Trinity. It's simple and easy, not offensive, not a challenge, not a move in a game, it's just a simple easy question with an easy answer, and that's that.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Nihilo said:
I don't know! I was surprised to find it. You bring up the Resurrection, and non-Trins scatter like spooked deer. You're the exception so far, I'm sure there are others, maybe [MENTION=4651]kmoney[/MENTION] for instance, others, but there's already a healthy contingent of non-Trins who run from that question, they consider it some sort of invasion of their privacy to ask, rather than just a simple easy question, which it is, for Christians who believe in the Trinity. It's simple and easy, not offensive, not a challenge, not a move in a game, it's just a simple easy question with an easy answer, and that's that.
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Its a simple question like--

Is the Pope your spiritual Father?

LA
 
marhig

marhig

Well-known member
Nihilo said:
I don't know! I was surprised to find it. You bring up the Resurrection, and non-Trins scatter like spooked deer. You're the exception so far, I'm sure there are others, maybe [MENTION=4651]kmoney[/MENTION] for instance, others, but there's already a healthy contingent of non-Trins who run from that question, they consider it some sort of invasion of their privacy to ask, rather than just a simple easy question, which it is, for Christians who believe in the Trinity. It's simple and easy, not offensive, not a challenge, not a move in a game, it's just a simple easy question with an easy answer, and that's that.
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Well I never knew that! I've never heard a non Trinitarian say that they don't believe that Jesus is raised from the dead.

We can't be raised with Christ if Christ Jesus is not raised. And we can't have faith in a dead Jesus only a living Jesus raised by God.

Is there a thread on that, that you know of that I can read? Thanks
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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marhig said:
Please don't think I'm going on, but I've never heard anyone say this before, if someone doesn't believe that Christ is risen, what do they believe? Thanks.
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Exactly. If He is not risen, then the whole faith is a huge embarrassing sham. There's no point to it, it's founded on a lie, and the Apostle Paul, as you've indicated, is blunt about it; if it's not real, then the whole thing's fake. That's how important it is to believe in the Resurrection, so it should be a very simple and easy question for a Christian. And if someone is saying they don't believe the Resurrection, but they see some other value in the faith, then they're going against what Paul said, they're calling Paul a liar twice. They think he's lying when he teaches that the Lord Jesus is risen, and they think he's lying when he says the faith is worthless if the Resurrection is made up.

Anyway. :)
 
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