marhig
Well-known member
Helped me overcome many things in my flesh that I was doing wrong. And he's still helping me everyday!
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
- Start date
Please don't jump ahead. Let's walk before we run.
Does the government have the right and responsibility to protect it's citizens and their rights, and itself?
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marhig
Well-known member
I'll read through this later when I'm not busy thanks
marhig
Well-known member
I have said what I believe, defend yes, cause war no. I won't be able to answer anymore until later, I'm not being ignorant I'm a bit busy.
Thank you for answering.
Marhig, Does God tell us to love our neighbor? (and by neighbor, I don't just mean the person who lives on the same street as we do)
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KingdomRose
New member
HOW does that show that God supports the military? Jesus separated himself from worldly ways by stressing the point that his government is not of this world (which is in Satan's control) but is of heaven. He doesn't use fleshly weapons. His apostle Paul explained all that, and has been quoted on this thread very recently. What do you say of EPHESIANS 6:12-17 and 2 CORINTHIANS 10:4? They directly contradict your mind-set.
Anyone who is interested in living according to Jesus' standards and according to what he requires to be citizens of his Kingdom would NOW be living according to his standards. NOW not later.
If you would like to follow along with the discussion between Marhig and I, I will eventually get to that point.
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KingdomRose
New member
THAT'S ENTIRELY CORRECT, and God does not want us to kill. Therefore, we do not kill. (Matthew 5:44; John 13:35; I John 3:10-12)
I suggest you go back through this post to where I provide the hebrew words for kill vs murder, and which one is used in Exodus 20:13
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KingdomRose
New member
Sorry, you are 100% wrong on this one. There was never, in any of God's purposes for this earth, any allowance for fighting one another. When Adam was created, peace reigned on Earth and it was supposed to always be that way. God NEVER planned for fighting and bloodshed. Sin and death came into the world because of Adam's rebellion. It was then that God planned for redemption for mankind, and that had to be involved with bloodshed. The bloodline of the Messiah was protected by Jehovah, and often that meant warring with pagan nations. That was not something the God viewed as acceptable, it was just necessary because of the majority of mankind's vicious attitudes. Jehovah DIRECTLY ordered Israel on how to carry out and reach their goal of settling in the land promised to Abraham. He told them exactly what to do and how to do it. Do any armies today consult Jehovah? Does He directly tell them what to do?
No, He doesn't do that any more. His Messiah was walking the earth 2,000 years ago, in the land that was promised to Israel because of Abraham's obedience. Since then God has not been involved in ANY warfare.
The point is....Jesus' Kingdom is NOT of this world and it never was meant to be. Therefore, your idea of "had it been of this world" is meaningless.
I have been telling him that. He has no clue about "of the world" means.
KingdomRose
New member
Yes it is. It is loving for the victim of that murderer. If someone takes a life, the justices should take the life of that murderer. That's how precious someone's life is to God. If it's taken, the person who took it is responsible and would have to pay with his own life.
Shhh! I'm waiting for Marhig's response. Could you hold off for a bit so that I can build my point in an orderly manner? Thanks!
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KingdomRose
New member
GENESIS 9:6: "Anyone shedding man's blood, by man will his own blood be shed."
EXODUS 21:22: "In case men should struggle with each other and they really hurt a pregnant woman and her children do come out but no fatal accident occurs, he is to have damages imposed upon him; and he must give it through the justices. But if a fatal accident should occur, then you must give soul for soul...."
Jehovah set up "cities of refuge" for someone to run to if they accidentally killed someone; if you research that you might find the subject interesting.
It is not Jesus' followers' duty to execute anyone.
KingdomRose
New member
That is right. But none of this supports any of the armies of the nations. In fact, when Jesus comes the last time, he will be facing ALL OF THE WORLD'S ARMIES, and they will be in opposition to him, as they are even now.
When he comes at Armageddon, there is an angel that cries out to the birds:
"Come, assemble for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of military commanders and the flesh of mighty men." (Revelation 19:17,18, NASB)
It doesn't look like the military institutions are going to fare very well in the end. Why get involved with them now?