pacifism for true Jesus' followers.

Rosenritter

New member
Not if you are in the military. You are only being disobedient if you join the military.

You are only pacifist if you are against violence.

get real friend.

Should peacefulness extend to our speech and manner as well as restraining ourselves from murder?
 

Rosenritter

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War is only justified for defense (Romans 13:1-8). It should not be used to expand a nation’s boundaries, or to take control of another nation, or to extract trade advantages. This is a fundamental principle. A nation should never need to establish military domination in another region or nation.

How did you draw that conclusion from Romans 13:1-8?
 

Rosenritter

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A Christian nation must not have a large “standing army”(Deut 17:16; 1 Kings 10:26-29). An army that is constantly training for war is dangerous, because it will be tempted to find a situation where it can use its skills. The military should not be given too much political power, as they will have a tendency to use war to solve all problems.

Those armies you referred to weren't Christian armies, and Jesus also seemed to have a higher standard than what was simply written in the Old Covenant. That might be a step in the right direction, but I suspect that falls short of what would please God most.
 

Rosenritter

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War should always be the last resort. Before declaring war, the civil government should try every means possible to obtain peace (Deut 20:10). We should never forget the horror of war. It is always costly in terms of human suffering. Christians should never glorify war. While it is an honor for a man to give his life to defend his family and community, war is never an ideal solution. A Christian government should be prepared for war, if it is attacked, but it should also hope that it would never have to fight.

Can you give some examples of what you would consider Christian governments? Or perhaps a best example?
 

Rosenritter

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My question has to do with whether I could be drafted after registering for the draft, because I did not join the military. Could I be a conscientious objector after registering for the draft? Is it true that it is against the law to not register?

If there is a law saying you must register, you should follow that law. If they order you to take an oath of military service, you can tell them that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that you cannot lawfully mandate that you take an oath. Assuming that the U.S. Constitution is observed, neither can they infringe upon your religious liberty if it honestly prohibits military service.

But expect them to be skeptical about how honest that decision if it is only voiced upon receiving a draft into the military. And you might have to endure some other punishment (like imprisonment, being made to work a stupid job, etc) instead.
 

Jacob

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Jacob did though!!!! I lost my drink when I read that.

Yes, because she is telling me what to do and she doesn't even know me. I support her thread and she tells me to talk to my Commander when I am not even in the military. You doesn't always mean you. What can you do?
 

JudgeRightly

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If that "Left Behind" theory is wrong, you might find yourself in with the armies when they point their guns skyward.

We can hasten the coming of the Lord.

looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:12&version=NKJV

The Rapture.

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.Therefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thessalonians4:13-18&version=NKJV

The Tribulation is never described as something comforting.

Not I. But the government, and only when it is just.

Forgot to add:

Also when defending an innocent person against an attacker, killing the attacker is allowed, but only to be used as a last resort.
 

Jacob

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If there is a law saying you must register, you should follow that law. If they order you to take an oath of military service, you can tell them that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that you cannot lawfully mandate that you take an oath. Assuming that the U.S. Constitution is observed, neither can they infringe upon your religious liberty if it honestly prohibits military service.

But expect them to be skeptical about how honest that decision if it is only voiced upon receiving a draft into the military. And you might have to endure some other punishment (like imprisonment, being made to work a stupid job, etc) instead.

Made to work a job? Maybe after registering for the draft no one can do anything until and if you are drafted. It is said that I have a disability. I don't believe it. But I also don't believe I should have to work beyond paying my school loan back. Less than $2,000 now.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Can you give some examples of what you would consider Christian governments? Or perhaps a best example?

There are none...

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’”


Luke 4:6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7 If you worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’”
 

Rosenritter

New member
Sounds like a lesson in what is lawful or what shouldn't be.

There are a lot of things that are lawful that shouldn't be, including infanticide, sexual abomination, and the murder of others under the justification of "it's for our country." My point being that a thing being lawful in the eyes of this world does not make it lawful before God, nor does it make what would otherwise be sin into righteousness.
 

Rosenritter

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looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? - 2 Peter 3:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Peter3:12&version=NKJV

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.Therefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Thessalonians4:13-18&version=NKJV

The Tribulation is never described as something comforting.

The comfort is that those who have died will still be raised to life, and that the resurrection reunites us with our loved ones again. Jesus never told us that we would not see harm, suffering, death, torment, and in fact he told us the opposite, that his disciples would endure persecution. Try reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs sometime, just for perspective.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 when the dead are raised, it speaks of a trumpet, "the trump of God." There are many trumpets in revelation. Which trumpet is that?
 

Rosenritter

New member
this is specific about Christians in the military.

why the nitpicking?

Who is nitpicking? Do you understand the spirit of the law behind "Thou shall not kill?" If a discussion about the application of "love thy neighbor" and "love thy enemies" descends into viciousness and bickering the whole whole point has been defeated already. And so what if one doesn't serve in the military? There are plenty of people who will never serve in the military yet their heart is filled with envy and strife and hatred.

The topic of this thread was "Pacifism for True Jesus Followers" which is right on the mark. The spirit of peace should manifest itself in our words and deeds beyond simply not shooting someone while wearing a uniform. One cannot effectively preach peace with a spirit of strife: it's innately contradictory. This isn't nitpicking: "Love thy neighbor" is the the root of this question.
 

meshak

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Who is nitpicking? Do you understand the spirit of the law behind "Thou shall not kill?"

Of course I do.

there are all kind of evil spirit in Christian practices.

this is what I have been revealing because it is permitted by most churches.

It has been treated like elephant in the room.

I can see your spirit behind your comment your comment.
 
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