ECT Our triune God

[patrick jane]

We are given some clues like a New Heaven and Earth, tears wiped forever away, no more sorrow, as well as an everlasting life with God and each other, streets of gold, many mansions... After that? 1 Corinthians 2:9

Yes, 1 Corinthians 2:9 KJV -

 

[Lon]

What about relational issues in the here and now as found in 1John2 and Heb 2:10; John 17:3, 21-23 in speaking of intimacy with God and Jesus, not later, now?

Not contested. 1 John 3:2 makes it clear we are looking forward. Titus 2:13 is apropos in this instance too.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The gospel penetrates cultures. To think that a culture loses its identity because of the gospel is wrong headed. No way is the church in America 'business' nor 'prostitutions.' He didn't even present statistics or other evidence. I turned it off as soon as the accusation was made: Itching ears...


Prior, he gave a few videos on healing, also hype without substance. A lot of these specific kinds of guys are flying around in jets and driving sports cars to their 3 million dollar mansions. "IF" I had a million dollars, I guaranteed I'd not have a million dollar house. I WOULD have an orphanage bought and paid for someplace, guaranteed. I don't believe the workman was EVER worthy of more than a double wage.

John 6:26 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.
John 6:27 Do not work for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."
...
John 6:66 After this many of his disciples turned back and no longer walked with him.

I think his only error is in saying that ALL can do what he does, because---

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

What I think is happening is that he is encouraging others who have or receive the same gift as he has, and among the true Church there must be many who have the other gifts as well, who need encouragement also, but who sit in churches doing nothing because they are not regarded or allowed to do anything.

My advice is to leave and find a person or persons who will.

I have known of such people where I lived before for a while, but most drift back to seat warmers, with so much idolizing of man, and the devil so often works against anything of God through "believers".


LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

New Apostolic Reformation... Global Church... Physical healing with no spread of the actual Gospel.

No wonder your theology is so jacked. I could expose this cult movement in thousands of ways, but if you're already on that train there's no derailing it.

False signs and wonders. False (NO) doctrine. Just tangible physical experience and encounters, never knowing what scripture actually says.

Sensationalism.



Yeah, YOU would think so. You've never seen power. Most of this is a sideshow with no substance whatsoever.

None of those healed had anything but a low-level physical change. No spiritual transformation by the Gospel.

Doing. Doing. Doing. No BEING. Works, not gifts. And works as the test of salvation.

The New Apostolic Reformation has as its goal the destruction of ACTUAL Christianity.

It's all false Teleology.

I had you judged correctly.

You would have to see the movie before you could make a fair judgment of what he and his friends around the world are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zka4DUYeJ5g

LA

 

[Cross Reference]

Not contested. 1 John 3:2 makes it clear we are looking forward. Titus 2:13 is apropos in this instance too.

What do you mean "not contested"?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

What about relational issues in the here and now as found in 1John2 and Heb 2:10; John 17:3, 21-23 in speaking of intimacy with God and Jesus, not later, now?

New birth happens when one believes Jesus is the son of God.

Being conformed to the image of Christ is the work of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

I had you judged correctly.

Judging me or anyone else is far above your paygrade. You judge yourself since you don't judge righteous judgment.

You would have to see the movie before you could make a fair judgment of what he and his friends around the world are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zka4DUYeJ5g

LA

I've kept very close track of all these cultic activities for almost two decades, and especially in the last 5 years.

It's a hybridization, not the purity of the Christian faith. The leaven has leavened the lump. It's apostasy, and all focused on the outer man from an anthropocentric foundation with false gifts as works.

I've seen and known the true power they attempt to conjure up. It's a sideshow, and they don't have any idea how heterodox they are.

It's the same mantra of the groups from the 1800s, always trying to recapture Acts while throwing everyone under the bus that doesn't agree and participate in their Neo-Montanism.

You and freelight have more in common than you do with authentic Christians.

 

[Lon]

What do you mean "not contested"?

I believe you were asking or saying we have life in Christ now. I don't contest that at all. We have hope, assurance, communion with God and the saints, the presence of the Comforter, One to hear our prayers, etc.

Totton has three threads (used to be a fourth one on wealth/prosperity) on gifts and how others' see them:

1) Gifts of the Spirit
2) God heals today
3) Brothers of Christ

I'm not sure if any of these are what you are thinking as far as benefits, other than those I've intimated above. If so, post in one of these and send me a note for response so we aren't getting too far from Theology/Christology for this thread.

Thanks. -Lon

 

[Cross Reference]

I believe you were asking or saying we have life in Christ now. I don't contest that at all. We have hope, assurance, communion with God and the saints, the presence of the Comforter, One to hear our prayers, etc.

Totton has three threads (used to be a fourth one on wealth/prosperity) on gifts and how others' see them:

1) Gifts of the Spirit
2) God heals today
3) Brothers of Christ

I'm not sure if any of these are what you are thinking as far as benefits, other than those I've intimated above. If so, post in one of these and send me a note for response so we aren't getting too far from Theology/Christology for this thread.

Thanks. -Lon

No thanks. I got the picture.

 

[Lon]

I think his only error is in saying that ALL can do what he does, because---

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
1Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

What I think is happening is that he is encouraging others who have or receive the same gift as he has, and among the true Church there must be many who have the other gifts as well, who need encouragement also, but who sit in churches doing nothing because they are not regarded or allowed to do anything.

My advice is to leave and find a person or persons who will.

I have known of such people where I lived before for a while, but most drift back to seat warmers, with so much idolizing of man, and the devil so often works against anything of God through "believers".


LA

Not as many Charismatic churches in your area? I might have listened to more, but his scathing remark about America as a prostitute church, left me unwilling to listen to anything else that another scathing remark would be made. He will stand before his Maker for that and have to give account. We are not to malign the body and bride of Christ without Him taking us to task. I think too, just above, you may be interested in a few of Totton Linnet's three threads where we can all pick up from there so we aren't derailing here.

I understand the interest and concern, just trying to springboard to a thread where it is the OP topic. Thanks -Lon

 

[Cross Reference]

Not as many Charismatic churches in your area? I might have listened to more, but his scathing remark about America as a prostitute church, left me unwilling to listen to anything else that another scathing remark would be made. He will stand before his Maker for that and have to give account. We are not to malign the body and bride of Christ without Him taking us to task. I think too, just above, you may be interested in a few of Totton Linnet's three threads where we can all pick up from there so we aren't derailing here.

I understand the interest and concern, just trying to springboard to a thread where it is the OP topic. Thanks -Lon

What about his other remarks prior or was it only that one you objected to?


If I said the visible church was NOT the body of Christ but the invisible one is, what would you say?

If I said mother [church] has usurped Father's [kingdom] authority, what would you take that to mean?

 

[Lon]

What about his other remarks prior or was it only that one you objected to?


If I said the visible church was NOT the body of Christ but the invisible one is, what would you say?

If I said mother [church] has usurped Father's [kingdom] authority, what would you take that to mean?

I see what you mean, but this is the difference: There are many denominations in the U.S. You cannot say "the church in America is a business" nor "The church in America is a prostitute" without being dead-wrong and insulting to the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is as bad as saying "there is no one saved in America." I'm not sure we need to belabor the point. For two pages, it is really a diversion from this thread and not at all what it is about. That topic covers "Ecclesiology." This thread is about Theology Proper, Pneumatology, and Christology as these relate to one another.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I see what you mean, but this is the difference: There are many denominations in the U.S. You cannot say "the church in America is a business" nor "The church in America is a prostitute" without being dead-wrong and insulting to the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is as bad as saying "there is no one saved in America." .

No.

There is a difference between the churches and the Church.

You can pick that up by reading the 7 letters to the churches in Revelation.

Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Lon,

I just sent this message to Torban--









Torban, Some are upset that you speak of the church in America as a prostitute. Could you please make a distinction between the true churches and the false and also between the churches (plural) and the Church, the Body of Christ.Thankyou.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Lon,

I just sent this message to Torban--

Torban, Some are upset that you speak of the church in America as a prostitute. Could you please make a distinction between the true churches and the false and also between the churches (plural) and the Church, the Body of Christ.Thankyou.

He IS the false, along with all of his New Apostolic Reformation peers, Third Wave Charismaticism, the Communitarians, and False Ecumenists of every ilk.

Word of Faith, Rhema, Bethel, IHOP, Saddleback, Willowcreek, Mars Hill, Vineyard, et al. The list is near endless and includes many AoGs and other "Community Churches" of various historical denominations.

None of it is true Pentecostalism. It's all Syncretic heterodoxy.

 

[Lon]

We've gone off on a tangent with the video for about 4 pages now. I'd really like to get this thread back on Theology and specifically the Triune view, please all. Thank you -Lon

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

We've gone off on a tangent with the video for about 4 pages now. I'd really like to get this thread back on Theology and specifically the Triune view, please all. Thank you -Lon

True. But it headed down this tangential path because all these groups hold false doctrinal viewpoints on Christology, Pneumatology, Hamartiology, and Soteriology that all relate back to denying some factor that is inextricably tied to the divinity of our Lord and/or a perversion/omission of some facet relative to Theology Proper and the historical orthodox Trinity doctrine.

One cannot be an authentic Trinitarian while advocating extreme (Hegelian) Kenoticism. The Hypostatic Union and Perichoresis go out the window, too. If Jesus was not the eternal uncreated divine Son while Incarnate, then that has far-reaching implications upon the Trinity.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

We've gone off on a tangent with the video for about 4 pages now. I'd really like to get this thread back on Theology and specifically the Triune view, please all. Thank you -Lon

Yes, returning to the focus of the thread is i order.

In the spirit of the thread's focus, some background readings for review:

View attachment 24125

View attachment 24124

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

An examination of Karl Rahner's rule:

The economic Trinity is the immanent trinity and the immanent Trinity is the economic Trinity

View attachment 24126


A simple cheat-sheet of Trinitarian statements:

View attachment 24129
[Click to enlarge]

AMR

 

[Cross Reference]

I see what you mean, but this is the difference: There are many denominations in the U.S. You cannot say "the church in America is a business" nor "The church in America is a prostitute" without being dead-wrong and insulting to the bride of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is as bad as saying "there is no one saved in America." I'm not sure we need to belabor the point.

I don't agree. It has been a prostitute and in business for itself to the degree it worships itself and continues in that vein as we speak, taking into itself the things of the world to augment it's failures in performing as the body of Christ you claim it to be. Why do think Jesus addressed the churches as He did in Rev 2 and 3, especially Laodicea?

For two pages, it is really a diversion from this thread and not at all what it is about. That topic covers "Ecclesiology." This thread is about Theology Proper, Pneumatology, and Christology as these relate to one another.

Don't you believe all that can be said has been said re you OP? Who can argue theology without knowledge and everyone here believes they have it all. So what is the point in repeating performances unless rectification can be attained? And what prevents that? Indeed, lets move on.