ECT Our triune God

Lon

Well-known member
So, if you pass the quiz are you saved?
Rather it identifies the areas where you may differ and can either embrace or correct depending on your theological perspective.

I am, as a matter of course, orthodox on all essential doctrine. These doctrines concern the larger portions you find in the creeds and systematic theologies. Most of us don't disagree with creeds. If we do, we have to account for it and our divergence with our Savior and perhaps our church affiliation as well, especially if a member of that church, and against their doctrine.

Can I be a Unitarian/Arian and be saved? I think it possible, but such definitely touches on salvific areas of doctrine. In addition, our heresies can and most often do travel right down to the roots of trust and faith in God as well as greatly affect every other creedal doctrine as disagreement.

Further, can I pass this test and not be a Christian? Yes. We need not know just about the Savior, but know Him, Himself, and more importantly, He us.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Interesting notion ... being that Hegel's disciples are the creators of the two party political system here in the U S of A as well as the faux Russia/America antagonism. You might be on to something ... considering the fact that so many of our offered points of contention are both contrived and offered to us by those with something less than our best interest in mind and are, as often as not, purveyors of the Hegelian dialectic, whether knowingly or not.


Luke 10:3
Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Matthew 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Matthew 10:16
Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
But, again, we circle back to the idea of salvation via proper doctrine.

Who's wine, what wine, where the hell did I dine?
 

Cross Reference

New member
The Angel of the LORD is not just any angel but is the LORD Himself, the Father of Jesus.

The Angel of the LORD descended upon Jesus at His Baptism by John.

LA

No. The Angel of the Lord was the Lord. He could executed from Himself that which a created angel could not do. What did Jacob afer he wrestled with Angel of the Lord?


"And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Genesis 32:27-30 (KJV)
 

Cross Reference

New member
Incorrect. This is exactly what I mean. You make an autonomous individual judgment based upon your own derived and contrived doctrine with NO linguistic understanding whatsoever.

No one knows what you mean.

You cannot conceive of someone spending two decades divesting themselves of every presupposition to unequivocally know the singular, central, absolute, and objective truth of the authentic historical and orthodox Christian faith with no taint from their own heart and mind. In addition, one must also spend a great amount of time knowing what NOT to know.

You should have gotten saved first and saved yourself the bother, especially when the end result has left with such rotten, conceited disposition.

You presume it's all varying opinions juxtaposed against one another, with yours being the valid and superior one because of what you've experienced and acquired. Most do exactly this, which is why there are near endless variations of every doctrine.

And you are just another one; another "will o the wisp".

Why does anyone need linguistic understanding if they have the Holy Spirit to teach them? What does your Greek say about that?
 

Cross Reference

New member
Rather it identifies the areas where you may differ and can either embrace or correct depending on your theological perspective.

I am, as a matter of course, orthodox on all essential doctrine. These doctrines concern the larger portions you find in the creeds and systematic theologies. Most of us don't disagree with creeds. If we do, we have to account for it and our divergence with our Savior and perhaps our church affiliation as well, especially if a member of that church, and against their doctrine.

Can I be a Unitarian/Arian and be saved? I think it possible, but such definitely touches on salvific areas of doctrine. In addition, our heresies can and most often do travel right down to the roots of trust and faith in God as well as greatly affect every other creedal doctrine as disagreement.

Further, can I pass this test and not be a Christian? Yes. We need not know just about the Savior, but know Him, Himself, and more importantly, He us.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"
1 Peter 4:17-18 (KJV)
 

Cross Reference

New member
I knew you couldn't and wouldn't. You use terms for which you have a predetermined and presupposed casual understanding and application that is erroneous.

If you don't even know the difference between Theos/Theios or Theotes/Theiotes, then you have no idea what "Godhead" means to even use it in a sentence, much less for doctrinal reference. Eek. Please just stop. (But you won't. You can't. Nobody can. That's the effect of Modernism on this age and this western culture.)



Eve? Adam was not alone. Isaac? Abraham was not alone. And you don't understand the meaning of the word "tempt/ed/ation". Englishizers all think they know what the words mean in scripture by translation, but it's a casual and reverse imposition of English upon Greek in most hearts and minds.



Since I most often quote preeminent lexicography, that is not the case at all. Not even close. And Charismatics are generally the furthest from the truth overall. (And I'm a Biblical Continuationist saying that, not a Cessationist.)



He's a Theophostic Counselor and Prayer Guide. I know many such ministers and ministries. All are a hybridization of psychological phenomenon and mild-to-wild subtleites of the occult. It's a new exploding trend in Third Wave Charismaticism and the New Apostolic Reformation cults; and it's ancient Montanism run amok and syncretized with every form of non-Christian religious belief and practice of all the ages. It's just not obvious to most, especially because it "works" in certain ways.



It's heterodox in every possible manner, while using Christian jargon and providing some kind of "encounter" and "experience".



Yes, epignosis and oida. If you knew what those were and had them, you wouldn't say the following...



Wow. Way to throw all the historical men of God under the bus and exalt Modernism and its garbage that has been Trojan-horsed inside the "Church" and deceived millions upon millions in the last century or a bit more.



I know exactly what adios and aionios mean. Historically, few have even approached it, which is part of my main critical and reconciliational excurses on all major orthodox doctrines.

The guy does Theopostic Counseling and Prayer as a ministry. Jesus didn't. Paul didn't. None of the other Apostles or ANY of the early Patristics did (with the exception of the heretical Montanists).

He is heterodox. Fact. Might be a nice guy. Might be a decent teacher in other ways. But his prayer ministry is at the outer fringes of what could even be remotely considered actual Christianity. I wouldn't let him lay hands on me for anything.

<good grief> You think I am going to argue against your silliness, yer crazy! <what a joke you are> BTW: I uncluded Jesus for your consideration to explain. Would you say no to Him not being alone as well because Satan was with Him?
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
No. The Angel of the Lord was the Lord. He could executed from Himself that which a created angel could not do. What did Jacob afer he wrestled with Angel of the Lord?


"And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Genesis 32:27-30 (KJV)

Why did you disagree and then agree with me?

The LORD is YHWH.

Jesus is Lord not YHWH.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Then tell everyone EXACTLY how and in what manner Jesus Christ is God.

Is He innately, intrinsically, inherently, and ontologically divine as both eternal and uncreated?

Read Rev.chs 4 and 5.

The creator is on the throne and the man Jesus is presented to Him and takes the scroll from the creators hand.

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
NO. Of all the things anyone could ever attempt to level at me as criticism, this would be among the very last; and it is my issue with conventional Trinitarians, as I have clearly and repeatedly asserted on this very forum.

The eternal uncreated Son did NOT have distinct sentient volitional consciousness from the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not multi-hypostatic and uni-/dyo-phenomenal, but is uni-/dyo-hypostatic and multi-phenomenal.

I don't expect you to ever understand what that means, for professing alleged modern Trinitarians themselves are too functionally Tritheistic to comprehend it. But know that I do NOT affirm the Trinity in multi-personal form or to include distinct multiple eternal minds and wills. That much should be clear from my tenure on TOL, if nothing else ever is.

Then you must believe Jesus is the Father in the flesh?

LA
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Because they represent anarthrous Greek nouns as articular,and on those subtle errors they build major doctrines that challenge core authentic historical orthodox doctrines of the Faith.

I teach this weekly for hours. Every last person who has ever sat through even a single two-hour session leaves doe-eyed and pale-faced because they realize they've believed groups and layers of subtle lies from not having known the meanings of words they have constantly used and applied for doctrinal false understanding.

The same thing would happen if you could ever listen instead of presuming this is just opinion against opinion and you have to be right because you're you and that's all you know and believe.

They probably leave doe-eyed because they do not know what the hell you are talking about.

Jesus spoke plain language of the time.

LA
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
...and then there is "elohim" ...

Yes, among several other Hebrew considerations for understanding. :)

Interesting notion ... being that Hegel's disciples are the creators of the two party political system here in the U S of A as well as the faux Russia/America antagonism. You might be on to something ... considering the fact that so many of our offered points of contention are both contrived and offered to us by those with something less than our best interest in mind and are, as often as not, purveyors of the Hegelian dialectic, whether knowingly or not.

Exactly. I know it to be true after extensively researching it for over 3 years to trace it all.

But, again, we circle back to the idea of salvation via proper doctrine.

Well... To beign, that again comes back to Greek word definitions, noun forms, and other grammatical considerations in translation.

Doctrine is rendered in English from three Greek words in various passages: Didaskalia, Didasko, and Logos.

Didaskalia is "that which is taught". Didasko is the verb form as "teaching". Logos requires a fairly extensive treatise to delineate, but should be basically understood as all the faculties and functionalities of inward thought and outward expression.

Salvation includes an inaugurating event, but is a being and becoming from that initiation until completion. There is a qualitative sense to what is salvific, but English minds can't comprehend that because that's an anarthrous construct and English has no equivalent for nouns (while Greek nouns can always have that construct relative to the designation of an articular).

Right doctrine (teaching, and the resulting renewed mind by God's Logos) is necessary to some degree for salvation. One cannot hear that which is not spoken about by God, and He hath spoken unto us in these last days by His Son.

But wrong doctrine can preclude or deter or supplant faith. So right doctrine may not be necessary in an extreme; but wrong doctrine is a huge concern. In that sense, it's very important to know what NOT to know.

A certain quality of doctrine is vital. A certain lack of quality as false doctrine can be eternally fatal.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
They probably leave doe-eyed because they do not know what the hell you are talking about.

Jesus spoke plain language of the time.

LA

You'd like to believe that. It's amazing how you think you could even know that, just because you're so deluded. They understand to a person exactly what I convey from lexicography, and it begins with Greek noun structures. Even many Masters' level Seminarians who've studied Greek as course work and as a language are oblivious to what I'm referring to about certain subtleties. You couldn't and wouldn't know.

You don't even know what "plain langauge" IS; and you can't even know that you don't know.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
No one knows what you mean.



You should have gotten saved first and saved yourself the bother, especially when the end result has left with such rotten, conceited disposition.



And you are just another one; another "will o the wisp".

Why does anyone need linguistic understanding if they have the Holy Spirit to teach them? What does your Greek say about that?

Yeah, everyone says they have the Holy Spirit to teach them, and yet most like you ignore that the Word will agree with the Spirit. Your false interpretations from faulty English projection do not agree with the Word, so by degree they are not the teaching of the Holy Spirit.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Then you must believe Jesus is the Father in the flesh?

LA

Nope. The Son is the Logos OF the Father, ultimately manifest in the flesh. I'm not a Unitarian, Arian, Sabellian, Adoptionist, or any other heterodox view for Theology Proper.

I challenge the minutiae of the historical Trinity formulation, and I also recognize that many modern professing Trinitarians are functional Tritheists; but I'm fully a Trinitarian and can delineate every aspect of the historical doctrine and its many various internal alternatives throughout history.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Interesting notion ... being that Hegel's disciples are the creators of the two party political system here in the U S of A as well as the faux Russia/America antagonism. You might be on to something ... considering the fact that so many of our offered points of contention are both contrived and offered to us by those with something less than our best interest in mind and are, as often as not, purveyors of the Hegelian dialectic, whether knowingly or not.

But, again, we circle back to the idea of salvation via proper doctrine.

Thesis... Antithesis... Synthesis. Rinse, Repeat Ad Infinitum.
 

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
No, they are one, but we agree with you distinct. It may be, some of your position is a reaction to a heresy we don't embrace. That would be encouraging.

Jesus said--

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Paul--

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

LA
 
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