ECT Our triune God

[Lon]

Don't hold your breath while waiting Lazy. We are all dummies so he does not have to.

Seems a catch 22 for the both of us but I still can't imagine that you, without the education, would think you are safe built off a faulty comparison between Jesus' disciples and the pharisees.

There is no such comparison today. Despite what a lot of people think, there are no Pharisees today. They only existed as long as Israel existed.

Education in theology is important today 1) to ensure that the language written is understood (Greek is more precise than English conveying thoughts, especially in equations of subjects).
2) God communicates to us in written language that has specific rules. All language must follow those rules for understanding. If you didn't get good grades in your primary language (English for me) then your ability to grasp another language is diminished. Furthermore, your grasp of even a Bible translation is only graspable to the aptituted of your grades (if you got a C in English, you have, at best, an adequate/acceptable grasp of what God is saying to you in English (or whatever your primary language is). 3) Because college is a place where you will meet not just a person, but 6 different professors each quarter/semester that will have studied their particular area for 10 intense years. Even if you or I didn't agree with their position, such would have you hammering your theology out with the best (if you want to be a swordsman, go to a swordsmith, if you want to be adept at things of God, go to a theologian). 4) It is a place to start to get respect for your thoughts. Without a degree, we are all laymen and must defer to professionals when it counts and matters. Why anybody would think that knowing God's Word is an exception, is beyond me. It is not. As stated above, if you didn't do well in your own language, your ability to grasp God's message is proportionate to your grades. If you are a C student, you are missing somethings in understanding God's Word.

 

[ttruscott]

Boychick, the first command of the Jews means one thing to the grafted in ones:

1) Either Hashem changed His mind when He first told us He was the numerically One God...
2) Or Hashem was always lying, (I do not say this, to mention it is
a liability even)...
or the undeniable possible number (3)
3) God is still numerically One and your trinity is FEH!

Squirm out of that one, boychick.

You forgot
4) When HE gave us the Sh'mah, HE expressed clearly that
"Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Eḥad" the single was a plural or a unity.

Ted
________________________
I knew the words of every song.
Did my singing please you?
No, the words you sang were wrong.
~ Leonard Cohen

 

[Lon]

Well, you can claim you are the true scholar all you want. You cannot change the fact that Jesus did not claim "I am God", not even once.

If He was, He would have said so. On the other hand, He claimed He is Son of God tons of times.

You can pretend to be leaned by twisting around and making simple complicated. But that's all it is; just pretending to be leaned, not real, dude.

Trins love to make simple complicated.

I disagree. It is everybody else trying to oversimplify our God.
I would have to throw away scripture to become either an arian or a modalist, two diametrically opposed camps.

What do they have in common?
1) They both claim the exact opposite of one another. The arian claims Jesus is a man (only a man) and the modalist claims Jesus is God (not subordinate to the Father but that He is the Father).

-The trinitarian sees both sets of scriptures but does not pit them against each other. He/she rather says, they are both true, regardless of what that means.

2) They both completely deny each other's scriptures, as if they threw them out of their bibles or explained troublesome passages away.
For instance, the arians read John 1:1 and say Jesus was 'a' god or that "logos" is not Jesus. The Modalists say Jesus was God the Father, manifest (playing the role) of Jesus.

-Trinitarians say that John 1 says that the Logos is Jesus: because the book is specifically about Him, because John equates Logos to Jesus in all of His books and even says Jesus is the Word of God in Revelation, because the Logos is both with and was God.

Both arians and modalists hate each other and call each other liars and drag us trinitarians, in the middle walking the thin path between, into your petty fight.

I started a thread like this to stay out of that fight, but it didn't seem to work out so well for us.

 

[ttruscott]

I disagree. It is everybody else trying to oversimplify our God.
I would have to throw away scripture to become either an arian or a modalist, two diametrically opposed camps.
...

No "thumbs up" smily, no "thanks for the helpful post" button,

can't see the "add to Rep" button except on my own posts, <sigh>

I guess I gottah write out a real note:

THANKS!

Peace to you,

Ted

 

[meshak]

I disagree. It is everybody else trying to oversimplify our God.

Show us where Jesus says "I am God"? If your claim is true, Jesus would make sure that we understood it. But He did not say even once.

That's how you make such a mess. God is not God of confusion.

I will not take you bait on go into endless debate. I dont play beating around the bush game.

 

[godrulz]

Show us where Jesus says "I am God"? If your claim is true, Jesus would make sure that we understood it. But He did not say even once.

That's how you make such a mess. God is not God of confusion.

I will not take you bait on go into endless debate. I dont play beating around the bush game.

Jesus claimed to be God. Show us where the Father said "I am God". When God says 'I AM' or 'First and Last', He is claiming to be God, even if He does not say 'I AM GOD'. Titles, attributes, works, worship, position, etc. of Deity are claimed by or applied to Jesus.

 

[sholom]

You forgot
4) When HE gave us the Sh'mah, HE expressed clearly that
"Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Eḥad" the single was a plural or a unity.

Ted
________________________
I knew the words of every song.
Did my singing please you?
No, the words you sang were wrong.
~ Leonard Cohen

Oh He did? Come on over to Lazy Afternoon's thread and I will show you how sprinkenbootchen your statement is, Gentile. I am done here. But for the record you could not be more wrong.

If Hashem was so clear then how was it Jews were always rabbinically and orthodoxically monotheists?
You still haven't squirmed out of this, boychick.

 

[meshak]

Jesus claimed to be God. Show us where the Father said "I am God". When God says 'I AM' or 'First and Last', He is claiming to be God, even if He does not say 'I AM GOD'. Titles, attributes, works, worship, position, etc. of Deity are claimed by or applied to Jesus.

they are not saying "I am God". "I am" and "first and the last" is not "I am God."

 

[keypurr]

Seems a catch 22 for the both of us but I still can't imagine that you, without the education, would think you are safe built off a faulty comparison between Jesus' disciples and the pharisees.

There is no such comparison today. Despite what a lot of people think, there are no Pharisees today. They only existed as long as Israel existed.

Education in theology is important today 1) to ensure that the language written is understood (Greek is more precise than English conveying thoughts, especially in equations of subjects).
2) God communicates to us in written language that has specific rules. All language must follow those rules for understanding. If you didn't get good grades in your primary language (English for me) then your ability to grasp another language is diminished. Furthermore, your grasp of even a Bible translation is only graspable to the aptituted of your grades (if you got a C in English, you have, at best, an adequate/acceptable grasp of what God is saying to you in English (or whatever your primary language is). 3) Because college is a place where you will meet not just a person, but 6 different professors each quarter/semester that will have studied their particular area for 10 intense years. Even if you or I didn't agree with their position, such would have you hammering your theology out with the best (if you want to be a swordsman, go to a swordsmith, if you want to be adept at things of God, go to a theologian). 4) It is a place to start to get respect for your thoughts. Without a degree, we are all laymen and must defer to professionals when it counts and matters. Why anybody would think that knowing God's Word is an exception, is beyond me. It is not. As stated above, if you didn't do well in your own language, your ability to grasp God's message is proportionate to your grades. If you are a C student, you are missing somethings in understanding God's Word.

Lon there is some truth in your statements. An education is great if your allowed to have one. But what do you call my 60 years of theological study? The knowledge given to me is not all from me Lon, it is from a higher source. My understandings are not yours. I wish I had your education, but I am very content with mine. I do need to know Greek to understand God's love for me friend. I have spent thousands of hours in religion and the Bible study. I have sat with pastors with Phds and stumped them with questions beyond their education. Keep in mind that theology colleges usually teach their form of scriptures. I have been taught by many churches.

Anyway, I wish you well and hope you find truth. Then you can feel how I do. Jesus went to the poor Lon, not the rich. Its us uneducated people who seem to know God best. So I will go to my grave without a degree and await my Lord to awaken me. May I suggest you use prayer when you study, it helps.

Best of luck in your quest, peace

 

[Bright Raven]

they are not saying "I am God". "I am" and "first and the last" is not "I am God."

Again, as usual, you are in error.

 

[Bright Raven]

Lon there is some truth in your statements. An education is great if your allowed to have one. But what do you call my 60 years of theological study? The knowledge given to me is not all from me Lon, it is from a higher source. My understandings are not yours. I wish I had your education, but I am very content with mine. I do need to know Greek to understand God's love for me friend. I have spent thousands of hours in religion and the Bible study. I have sat with pastors with Phds and stumped them with questions beyond their education. Keep in mind that theology colleges usually teach their form of scriptures. I have been taught by many churches.

Anyway, I wish you well and hope you find truth. Then you can feel how I do. Jesus went to the poor Lon, not the rich. Its us uneducated people who seem to know God best. So I will go to my grave without a degree and await my Lord to awaken me. May I suggest you use prayer when you study, it helps.

Best of luck in your quest, peace

It was Teddy Roosevelt that said; "A knowledge of the Bible is greater than a college education."

 

[Lon]

No "thumbs up" smily, no "thanks for the helpful post" button,

can't see the "add to Rep" button except on my own posts, <sigh>

I guess I gottah write out a real note:

THANKS!

Peace to you,

Ted

(upper right corner, two boxes - red if you are mad )

 

[Lon]

It was Teddy Roosevelt that said; "A knowledge of the Bible is greater than a college education."

But what if they are the same thing? My degree is in Bible in addition to personal study.

 

[Lon]

May I suggest you use prayer when you study, it helps.

Best of luck in your quest, peace

I do pray but you'd be mistaken to insist that it supercedes study, it does not. It is rather with both God-given discernments that we rightly divide His Word. If one doesn't know his own language he is reading his translation in, he is as handicapped as that aptitude suggests and no amount of prayer will compensate for poor scholastism. It is both/and, not "poor uneducated person that God loves " prayer nor education without the Spirit guiding us. It is both or nothing. That, imho, is why you continue to doctrinally fail. I believe that kind of thinking is a lie. Every poor Israelite went to the temple and was taught from birth. They were far from being as uneducated in spiritual matters as gentiles. They wrote scripture all over the house. In no way can you make the comparison between Jesus' poor from the house of Judah to poor gentiles who know virtually nothing. Scripture does call them "uneducated" but not in what you are thinking. If anybody on this planet deserves honorary degrees, it is those who walked with God. It is highly presumptous to assume a degree one does not possess.


I completely disagree with you that you can be doctrinally sound without a grasp of the languages, among other academic hurdles needed for sound and trustworthy theology. Afterall, even the rest of the church, including the Apostles, defered to Paul when in doctrinal doubt. Why? Because He'd went to college and earned the degree.

 

[keypurr]

I do pray but you'd be mistaken to insist that it supercedes study, it does not. It is rather with both God-given discernments that we rightly divide His Word. If one doesn't know his own language he is reading his translation in, he is as handicapped as that aptitude suggests and no amount of prayer will compensate for poor scholastism. It is both/and, not "poor uneducated person that God loves " prayer nor education without the Spirit guiding us. It is both or nothing. That, imho, is why you continue to doctrinally fail. I believe that kind of thinking is a lie. Every poor Israelite went to the temple and was taught from birth. They were far from being as uneducated in spiritual matters as gentiles. They wrote scripture all over the house. In no way can you make the comparison between Jesus' poor from the house of Judah to poor gentiles who know virtually nothing. Scripture does call them "uneducated" but not in what you are thinking. If anybody on this planet deserves honorary degrees, it is those who walked with God. It is highly presumptous to assume a degree one does not possess.


I completely disagree with you that you can be doctrinally sound without a grasp of the languages, among other academic hurdles needed for sound and trustworthy theology. Afterall, even the rest of the church, including the Apostles, defered to Paul when in doctrinal doubt. Why? Because He'd went to college and earned the degree.

I earned my degree from a higher source Lon, as you have just displayed, you do not understand. All the degrees in the world will not help you if you do not open your heart to his words. I have my study, the only study that was available to me. And it did just fine. And I am still open to learning from any source. I will never know it all, fact is I have forgotten a lot now, but I keep trying. As my input is of no value to you, I will not be posting on your threads.
I will pray for you.
Peace

 

[Lon]

I earned my degree from a higher source

Sorry, all the special-pleading in the world amounts to the same thing: you think you are above each and every of the 2 billion believers currently living, and especially above each and every man and woman who put their money where their cheap pleading wouldn't suffice.

How you can't see that as 1) a gauntletted fist in the face of very dedicated people to the Lord who spent hard earned money to know Him better and 2) absurd posturing ("I am special" - "You are not") that we cannot easily if not impossibly take seriously/credibly; frankly is beyond me. Indeed, all you have left is you and whoever your Jesus is. You are in a delusional world all your own because of the few of you who exist, you can't even agree amongst yourselves because each of you has his own personal supposedly special-god-given-take on truth. We tend to have special places for special people and I have no problem whatsoever with my taxes going to help them.

 

[sholom]

Sorry, all the special-pleading in the world amounts to the same thing: you think you are above each and every of the 2 billion believers currently living, and especially above each and every man and woman who put their money where their cheap pleading wouldn't suffice.

How you can't see that as 1) a gauntletted fist in the face of very dedicated people to the Lord who spent hard earned money to know Him better and 2) absurd posturing ("I am special" - "You are not") that we cannot easily if not impossibly take seriously/credibly; frankly is beyond me. Indeed, all you have left is you and whoever your Jesus is. You are in a delusional world all your own because of the few of you who exist, you can't even agree amongst yourselves because each of you has his own personal supposedly special-god-given-take on truth. We tend to have special places for special people and I have no problem whatsoever with my taxes going to help them.

Who is the posturer, I will only say one thing and no longer bother to read your posts. 2 billion believers including you contradict the first principle of your religion. That YHWH your God is one.

All the learning in the world comes to this? Idolatry? Then you would
correct your elder in the faith? Oy, what a chochem!

And good luck to your thread. I see how many want to go over trinity with you. What you gonna talk about? I would say another blasphemy here, but it would be my own demise. Sooner demise.

 

[student_ad_x]

unsubscribing

 

[Lon]

Who is the posturer, I will only say one thing and no longer bother to read your posts. 2 billion believers including you contradict the first principle of your religion. That YHWH your God is one.

All the learning in the world comes to this? Idolatry? Then you would
correct your elder in the faith? Oy, what a chochem!

And good luck to your thread. I see how many want to go over trinity with you. What you gonna talk about? I would say another blasphemy here, but it would be my own demise. Sooner demise.

Er, you already said you were done. Let your yes be yes.

Even if what you had to say were noteworthy, didn't you just undo it by being double-minded?

Ten, or one-hundred and twenty or a thousand fifty one or whatever the actual number is, is difficult to take without several large grains of salt. I just cannot agree with you that God is so impotent as all that. He has given us John 1:1 and many other passages that give us great pause in coming up with something conclusive as you are trying to purport.

 

[Lon]

unsubscribing

Sorry, sorry, sorry.