ECT Our triune God

[Arsenios]

Well, it's been a couple of years .... perhaps it's time to dust it of once again. It's weathered fairly well as it concerns my previous offerings.




The Theology of Nonismatism

I created this term, Nonismatism, to fulfill my need for a word to briefly express my approach to the word of God that the English language lacked heretofore. Some have enquired as to it’s meaning. Like me, it is a work in progress, changing to accommodate my level of understanding as is needed. Though it is not as of yet entirely codified there are certain aspects of Nonismatism that may be pointed to with some modicum of confidence. To wit:

Nonismatism firmly rejects any and all isms, denominational or otherwise, while reserving the right to agree with certain tenets of any of them.

A Nonismatics' statement of faith is the Bible…………….. ALL of it.

Nonismatism seeks to preserve and present the verses of scripture cast aside, contradictory to and otherwise unwanted by ismatic theologies.

Nonismatism affirms the individual’s responsibility to come to an understanding of the word of God through their own sustained effort.

Nonismatics see “the church” as a group of any two or more believers in Jesus and rejects the notion it is a physical or denominational structure.

Nonismatism demands of it’s adherents that they be willing to cast aside any and all preconceived notions about the meaning of the word of God if the plain meaning of what they read of it requires it.

Nonismatism holds that there are no contradictions in the word of God; only what appear to be contradictions to the mind of man.

Nonismatics have no problem whatsoever saying, “I don’t know. I’ll study some and get back to you on that”. They are also encouraged to admit, “You might be right” if the occasion calls for it.

Nonismatics hold that the answer to Cain’s question is, “Yes”.

Nonismatics believe that “the Parable of the Talents” indicates that rather than stuff their talent down someone else’s throat that they are directed to go get more.

Nonismatism holds that not everyone is at the same level of understanding of the word of God and that this is not necessarily a “hanging offense”.

Nonismatism has only one Boss, the rest of us are servants……….ALL of us. There are no “chief seats” in Nonismatism.

Nonismatics don’t tithe; they believe they owe it all.

Nonismatism fully embraces both humor and irony as evidenced by the fact its adherents are fully aware that Nonismatism is, at the end of the day, yet another ism.


If you feel that you too are a Nonismatist you are thereby empowered to add or subtract from its tenets as is necessary to accommodate your current level of understanding of the word of God. However, as with all isms, it is inevitable that Nonismatism will give birth to other competing isms such as Anti-Nonismatism, Ultranonismatism and the like. If you feel so inclined please strive to maintain the purity of Nonismatic thought and avoid such innovations.

Love,

Mateo

Wholesale rejection of the illness of religion...

Anti-tithing was a great nonismatic tenant as expressed above...
Rejection of ten-percent-ism... We OWE is ALL...

Great post...

Have you noticed that whereas there is Catholicism, there is no such thing as Orthodoxism? Just Orthodoxy... The Faith, and not the '-ism' OF the Faith... Likewise Christianity - No christianiticism... It just does not happen...

A.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

pardon the interruption
but
could you tell me
if
you are arguing for or against the Trinity?

I am contending against the classic and traditional Multi-Hypostatic Uni-Phenomenal Trinity.

I am contending for a Uni-Hypostatic Multi-Phenomenal Trinity.

The primary difference is filiation and spiration as internal versus external procession, and uncreated versus created phenomena.

I oppose Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being quantified and individuated as multiple hypostases.

 

[chrysostom]

I am contending against the classic and traditional Multi-Hypostatic Uni-Phenomenal Trinity.

I am contending for a Uni-Hypostatic Multi-Phenomenal Trinity.

The primary difference is filiation and spiration as internal versus external procession, and uncreated versus created phenomena.

I oppose Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being quantified and individuated as multiple hypostases.

have you ever considered the family as a trinity?

father, mother, child

each one of us could be considered part of a trinity

 

[Arsenios]

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

It is easy to understand that since the LORD God is everywhere that Jesus would be in Him, and since Jesus had the fulness of God bodily, God lived in him.

Jesus Christ has become 'The BODY' that Christians become a part of.

1Co 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ?
1Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

There is one body (Christ Jesus, which we are a part of) and one Spirit (LORD God) which lives in us a well as Jesus.

One Spirit, one God, and one Redeemer (Jesus, the body of Christ)

:thumb:

A.

 

[Arsenios]

How is the Son God's literal Logos?

How is John the Baptist the Prophet Elias?

How does a tree become knowledge to eat?

How does the third heaven have things unlawful to speak?

Swords and scabbards and thrustings,
however procreational they may sound in their union,
are not explanatory of creation...


A.

 

[chrysostom]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

is the word man singular?
we would look for a trinity in each of us
and
most here seem to do that

if the word man is plural
then each of us could see ourselves as part of a trinity

which makes more sense?

 

[fzappa13]

Wholesale rejection of the illness of religion...

Anti-tithing was a great nonismatic tenant as expressed above...
Rejection of ten-percent-ism... We OWE is ALL...

Great post...

Oh, I'm all for the tithe, I just don't think most folks understand what it is.



Amos 5:3 For thus saith the Lord GOD; The city that went out by a thousand shall leave an hundred, and that which went forth by an hundred shall leave ten, to the house of Israel.


Isaiah 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.


Neh 11:1 And the rulers of the people dwelt at Jerusalem: the rest of the people also cast lots, to bring one of ten to dwell in Jerusalem the holy city, and nine parts to dwell in other cities.
2 And the people blessed all the men, that willingly offered themselves to dwell at Jerusalem.


Zec 8:
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD.
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


Deut 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the LORD'S portion is his people;

Have you noticed that whereas there is Catholicism, there is no such thing as Orthodoxism? Just Orthodoxy... The Faith, and not the '-ism' OF the Faith... Likewise Christianity - No christianiticism... It just does not happen...

A.

We just don't see our particular ism as an ism .... and that was my point. Well, one of them anywho.

 

[Arsenios]

We just don't see our particular ism as an ism ....
and that was my point.

The Orthodox teach the illness of religion as an illness...
Including the illness of "BELIEVING" in Orthodoxy...
Believing in Orthodoxy is nuts...

It must be lived in obedience to the discipleship of the Body of Christ... eg To the commandments lf Christ...

To the detriment of one's obedience to his own flesh ...
And in willful denial of one's own self...
Taking up one's own cross willingly...
And following Christ...

Now you can SAY that this is an ism if you wish...
But then you must say that Christianity is an ism...
When Paul writes:

To live: Christ
To die: Gain

Which indicates no ism...

But I suppose one can turn any teaching into an ism...

Was THAT your point?

Arsenios

 

[fzappa13]

The Orthodox teach the illness of religion as an illness...
Including the illness of "BELIEVING" in Orthodoxy...
Believing in Orthodoxy is nuts...

It must be lived in obedience to the discipleship of the Body of Christ... eg To the commandments lf Christ...

To the detriment of one's obedience to his own flesh ...
And in willful denial of one's own self...
Taking up one's own cross willingly...
And following Christ...

Now you can SAY that this is an ism if you wish...
But then you must say that Christianity is an ism...
When Paul writes:

To live: Christ
To die: Gain

Which indicates no ism...

But I suppose one can turn any teaching into an ism...

Was THAT your point?

Arsenios

Well, it's sorta like the dust up that ended up in TOL's rules for posting in the Exclusively Christian Theology forum; there were those who thought a mere belief in the veracity of the Bible was an insufficient filter to ward off the unwashed and required a more well defined credo (read here their favorite ism) as a prerequisite for posting thereto.

They lost ... for the time being.

In the mean time, there is quite a variety of isms competing for a place in the hearts and minds of those here and I think that a part of the strength of this joint although I know that others disagree. Me, I'm just trying to hold up the mirror and some folks object to what they see from time to time ...


BTW ... how'd you like my little tithe thingy?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

have you ever considered the family as a trinity?

father, mother, child

each one of us could be considered part of a trinity

This very reasoning is why I so adamantly oppose the fallacious multiple hypostasis Trinity formulaic.

You've just presented Tritheism. Each human member of a family is a being. The family is not a singular being.

This is the most egregious compromise of Monotheism possible.

Individuated hypostases are individuated ousios, as you've just described.

Gorilla-glued siamese triplets is an apt comparison.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

How is John the Baptist the Prophet Elias?

How does a tree become knowledge to eat?

How does the third heaven have things unlawful to speak?

Swords and scabbards and thrustings,
however procreational they may sound in their union,
are not explanatory of creation...

A.

Le-Sigh. You address no questions or challenges I've validly raised.

I fail to comprehend how you can present such things when you have no answers for the "hows" of creation yourself.

You've recently faded from having any real answers for anything as the paradoxes of Orthodox Theology Proper run headlong into mandated assertion of mystery.

God did not stutter. He expressed Himself fully by the Son as the express image OF His hypostasis.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness

is the word man singular?
we would look for a trinity in each of us
and
most here seem to do that

Spirit/soul/body as one hypostasis is not three hypostases. Man is not a "trinity".

if the word man is plural
then each of us could see ourselves as part of a trinity

which makes more sense?

Neither. All men are both a hypostasis and an ousia as a human being. God is not multiple beings.

Your perspective is exactly why most professing Trinitarians aren't even actual Trinitarians.

You're not, and yet would likely fight to the death to defend that you are.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

have you ever considered the family as a trinity?

father, mother, child

each one of us could be considered part of a trinity

I'm part of a family of beings. My Father, Mother, Sister, and myself.

Are we are quadrinity? No.

I'm part of another family of beings. Me, Wife, Daughter, Son, and Son.

Are we a quintinity? No.

If Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are multiple beings, then they are three gods as divine beings. Just like a family is comprised of multiple beings and are not one human being.

You're a Tritheist, at least functionally and by profession.

 

[chrysostom]

I'm part of a family of beings. My Father, Mother, Sister, and myself.

Are we are quadrinity? No.

I'm part of another family of beings. Me, Wife, Daughter, Son, and Son.

Are we a quintinity? No.

If Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are multiple beings, then they are three gods as divine beings. Just like a family is comprised of multiple beings and are not one human being.

You're a Tritheist, at least functionally and by profession.

do you believe Jesus is God?

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Oh, I'm all for the tithe, I just don't think most folks understand what it is.

It's impossible to give a monetary tithe in the New Covenant.:greedy:

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

do you believe Jesus is God?

That has been made clear. I believe Jesus is "more" God than classic Trinitarians.

Your assertions have indicated you believe Jesus is a distinct being, as are the Father and Holy Spirit.

Do you believe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one being, or are they a family of beings?

 

[chrysostom]

That has been made clear. I believe Jesus is "more" God than classic Trinitarians.

Your assertions have indicated you believe Jesus is a distinct being, as are the Father and Holy Spirit.

Do you believe Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one being, or are they a family of beings?

who was Jesus praying to?

 

[fzappa13]

It's impossible to give a monetary tithe in the New Covenant.:greedy:

Evidently you did hand in your Baptist phylactery ... :chuckle:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I'm part of a family of beings. My Father, Mother, Sister, and myself.

Are we are quadrinity? No.

I'm part of another family of beings. Me, Wife, Daughter, Son, and Son.

Are we a quintinity? No.

If Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are multiple beings, then they are three gods as divine beings. Just like a family is comprised of multiple beings and are not one human being.

You're a Tritheist, at least functionally and by profession.

You're trying to use human terms to explain the Trinity. There is: God
the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit yet, they are ONE. we
must simply BELIEVE this Spiritual truth. I doubt any human being
can explain this Spiritual truth in human terms. We must simply, believe.
People have tried to give there own examples of what the Trinity
represents however, our finite minds cannot truly understand this truth
decisively.

 

[chrysostom]

how are they joined together?
the child
and
all three are one flesh

Matthew 19:6 King James Version (KJV)

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.