"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Dan Emanuel said:
Did you mean, in Revelation, it hasn't existed yet? Or are you saying that it has never existed?
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John was seeing the Day of the Lord, which is yet future. A church will exist there at that time but did not exist during Paul's journeys in that very area.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Shasta said:
Baptists believe that a person must choose to believe in Christ in order to enter into a saving relationship with Him. Thereafter that status cannot be changed; not even if the person subsequently rejects the faith or falls back into a (continual) lifestyle of sin. Thus, person can choose Christ UP UNTIL THE POINT of salvation. The same option (apostasizing) is not available thereafter. Reformed Theology is more consistent in that it denies the freedom of human will both before, during and after the point where a person comes into right relationship with God. The doctrine of OSAS is the last remaining petal of Calvinism most types of Baptist still hold to. I will note in passing that this was NOT the view of the original Anabaptists who were persecuted by the Calvinists who were then in power.

OSAS holds "eternal life" to be a static state either for legal or ontological reasons. I believe the the scripture teaches that salvation is a dynamic, ongoing,relationship of faith, faith meaning actively putting our trust in, confidence of reliance upon Christ and the truth of the Gospel.

In the verse you have cited here, the Apostle John uses present tense verbs which in Greek carries the sense of ongoing, continual activity.

FONT="Book Antiqua"]]The durative (linear or progressive) in the present stem: the action is represented as durative (in progress) and either as timeless (ἔστιν ὁ θεός) or as taking place in present time[/FONT]
http://www.ntgreek.net/present.htm

Here I have added some words to emphasize this idea.

My sheep are hearing My voice, and I am knowing them, and they are following Me. 28 And I am give (am giving) them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. (John 10:27-29)

1. The first thing Jesus says is that out of all those who were listening to His teaching certain ones were hearing (with understanding) and responding. Jesus said he was knowing them. There are several words for "know" in Greek. The one He uses here is ginosko which means to know by personal aquaintance or experience. Jesus was recognizing His sheep by their response to what He was saying.

2. The next thing Jesus said was that He was in the process of givinging eternal life to them.

3. They are follow (ing) me

4. The word following means



In other words His sheep did not merely believe in Jesus they were following him as disciples, that is, they were obedient to His word.

5. The promise of eternal life, made to THESE followers was that they would never perish (in hell) This verse is a promise to someone who had been (1) drawn to Jesus, (2) who have responded to the preaching of the Gospel and (3) are following Him. This verse is not addressing the case of a lapsed or apostate believer.

To assume that a person solely on the basis of their initial response to the Gospel irrevocably unconditionally possesses eternal life is a presupposition read into the text. In fact the verse does not deal with the case of apostates or lapsed believers.

4. Although this issue is not addressed explicitly, it is implicitly.

neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

The word "snatch" is harpazei according to Thayer's Lexicon means to seize, carry off by force

This would be exemplified by a kidnapper, snatching a child out of his bed, restraining him and forcibly carrying him out of his parent's house. This cannot happen to believer who is following Christ but this example does not address the case of a child who runs away from home out of rebellion. When people depart from Christ it does not happen because they are overpowered and forced to do it but because they choose to do so. Once we enter the Father's house it is love and the inner working of the Spirit that keeps us there. The door is not bolted and locked. We choose to abide there because we need Him and love Him (John 6:68).
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Excellent post.

LA
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
heir said:
I did not repent of any of my sins. I trusted the Lord believing that when "Christ died for our sins" 2000 years before I was even born, He died for them all! PTL!

Christ was delivered for our offences and was raised again for our justification (Romans 4:25 KJV). It's just as if we've never sinned!
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Mind dynamics, the power of positive thinking.

That is all you have.

LA
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Hebrews was written TO the Hebrews. You need to learn how
to "Rightly Divide" the Word.
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The book of Hebrews was written to the Christian churches, to give them understanding of the journey of faith from their first believing to there eventual arriving at their heavenly destination.

It is written using the types of the OT which we in reading gather much understanding from.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Lazy afternoon said:
The book of Hebrews was written to the Christian churches, to give them understanding of the journey of faith from their first believing to there eventual arriving at their heavenly destination.

It is written using the types of the OT which we in reading gather much understanding from.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.
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You're another "Baloney Meister."
 
Nick M

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
turbosixx said:
1 Cor. 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
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I bolded the part you are ignoring for one reason or another.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Right Divider said:
Eternal means FOREVER and EVER.

You seem to be the naive one.
Joh 5:24 KJV Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
​
I guess that, according you, someone can continually PASS from DEATH UNTO LIFE and back UNTO DEATH ..... again and again and again......
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Love your list. It's spot on and room for more.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Lazy afternoon said:
The book of Hebrews was written to the Christian churches, to give them understanding of the journey of faith from their first believing to there eventual arriving at their heavenly destination.

It is written using the types of the OT which we in reading gather much understanding from.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
1Ti 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.
Click to expand...

Do you ever tire of being ignorant? Or, have you grown accustom
to your predicament?
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Drew24 said:
@Shasta maybe I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying OSAS is a part of the Calvinistic Doctrine? I mean I can agree with you to a certain extent, but my understaning is that Calvinists believe that when you are saved you are saved , HOWEVER it differs from at least the Baptist Church I grew up in in that if you rebel against God you were likely never to have been saved in the first place. Can you expound upon that more? I just got saved a year ago, after 19 years of believing I was saved with no changes in my life. So I am new To studying the Bible and theology. Humbly I must say that from my understanding of OSAS is that once you are saved you never lose your salvation wether you live the rest of your life in sin or not. which from the Calvinistic point that once you are saved God begins to consecrate or sanctify you to him. So if you sin, the Holy Spirit convicts you to repentance. Therefore, in order sin and continue to live in sin with no repentance or conviction you were never saved to begin with.
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You're a little confused. It seems? Do you believe in OSAS?
 
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