Open Theism Seminar with Bob Enyart!

[Jefferson]

... what term adequately describes the view that ALL things... ALL events, .... ALL happenings.... ALL Beings .... ALL Motives and Modus .... are in the express Control of the Father of Jesus.???????

The settled view.

 

[zapp]

The settled view.

uggh. I was afraid of that.

So, the follow-on: what the OV/OT position has unfortunately become, whether intended or not, is excessively broad an fuzzy in definition, laden with a lot of baggage that renders it a bit of a moving, imprecise target. Eh?

Maybe its just my experience, but I'm persuaded that Jews of every major grouping and perhaps every era, seem to not have as big an issue with these questions as do christians and their critics. Jews seem to take the approach that the natural order is bounded by God with rules and laws [i.e. laws of science... and more] and that if the elements of the material realm transgress such borders, there are consequences that are not 'dictated' as the outcomes by God as a conscious "plan".... Put another way, the plan for the natural order was drawn broadly, but mankind [and angelic beings, I would add] were given the ability to innovate.... for real. And yes with very bad outcomes possible.....

 

[Jefferson]

Jews seem to take the approach that the natural order is bounded by God with rules and laws [i.e. laws of science... and more] and that if the elements of the material realm transgress such borders, there are consequences that are not 'dictated' as the outcomes by God as a conscious "plan".... Put another way, the plan for the natural order was drawn broadly, but mankind [and angelic beings, I would add] were given the ability to innovate.... for real. And yes with very bad outcomes possible.....

Sounds like a pretty accurate description of the open view to me.