Yep, same thread as linked in your phony OP from this thread.
Please take special note what is said herein again concerning Romans 8:9
:Nineveh:
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- Thread starter Evil.Eye.<(I)>
- Start date
Yep, same thread as linked in your phony OP from this thread.
Please take special note what is said herein again concerning Romans 8:9
:Nineveh:
How many times do they expect to prove you did it?
I guess if you repeat false often enough, it will become false.
Daqq,
You could really help this matter with a simple yes or no. Is the Holy Spirit the presence of God within us, in your opinion? There is no definitive yes or no in your exegesis.
Honestly... I would be relieved to hear a simple yes or no from you.
Here... I'll make it easy...
Question 1) Is the Holy Spirit the literal, sentient presence of God within us?
Please highlight your answer... (Yes) or (No)
Question 2) Is the Holy Spirit the literal, sentient presence of Jesus within us?
Please highlight your answer...(Yes) or (No). Matthew 5:37
Meshak... Do you believe the Comforter (John 16:7) is the literal presence of God within us?
(Yes) or (No)
Matthew 5:37
So true, I suppose that is why it is good to go away sometimes for a while; you get tired of looking up things that have been already said six or seven times just to repost them all over again, (and when it is the same person you already said it to six or seven times, like Jerry Shugart, it really gets annoying). There comes a point where you end up mostly just doing searches because you cannot remember where you said what even though you know you said it multiple times already. It is nice to have key words that most do not use, like "Ruach Elohim", that one came up real easy. :chuckle:
Question 1) Is the Holy Spirit the literal, sentient presence of God within us?
Please highlight your answer... (Yes) or (No)
Question 2) Is the Holy Spirit the literal, sentient presence of Jesus within us?
Please highlight your answer...(Yes) or (No).
Matthew 5:37
Yes, but you are so patient you prove to them over and over.
I just put them all on ignore.:angel:
If you read the scripture I quoted, you would get the "not so funny" joke.
If you read the scripture I quoted, you would get the "not so funny" joke.
It is not joke.
just insightful comment.
It is not joke.
just insightful comment.
You have proven easy to scripturally discredit. I am safely engaging ignore for you.
Now... The question is... can [MENTION=17195]daqq[/MENTION] give a simple yes or no answer which prevents... the employment of "obfuscation"....
You are not interested in what your enemy says. All you want to do is bicker.
No matter what your enemy says, you will not accept it. That's how it goes with "I am saved" group.
another insightful comment
Link to Daqqs charge that led to this line of questioning
Then let the audience see what questions you are afraid to answer yes or no to. And... if your "no thank you" is an absolute no to both of my questions... I am no liar on this matter. You de-personify the Holy Spirit of Christ that resides within us because of God's miraculous work in life, the cross, full return to the Father (Lk. 23:46) and "Un-Corporeal" return as He promised (Deuteronomy 31:6; Jn. 14:16; 16:7; Acts 1:4-8; 2:1-4)... until He fully returns in Corporeal form... (Acts 1:9-12, 6-7; Zechariah 14:4; Joel 3:2)
Evil.Eye.<(I)> said:
Then let the audience see what questions you are afraid to answer yes or no to. And... if your "no thank you" is an absolute no to both of my questions... I am no liar on this matter. You de-personify the Holy Spirit of Christ that resides within us because of God's miraculous work in life, the cross, full return to the Father (Lk. 23:46) and "Un-Corporeal" return as He promised (Deuteronomy 31:6; Jn. 14:16; 16:7; Acts 1:4-8; 2:1-4)... until He fully returns in Corporeal form... (Acts 1:9-12, 6-7; Zechariah 14:4; Joel 3:2)
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Then let the audience see what questions you are afraid to answer yes or no to.
Even if he does answer, you will later claim he did not answer.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Having some Unitarian fun..........
Having some Unitarian fun..........
Hi EE - first of all, if you follow my sharings,...I've contended that a Unitarian, Trinitarian or other-arian (lol) view is just fine, as long as we follow Jesus, love 'God' and others, and walk in the Spirit. I think you agree on these core essential truths and values
My Christology is all-inclusive, as far as using whatever is profitable or at least conceptually tenable. Of course some views, opinions or beliefs can be more helpful than others, but thats where spiritual discernment and intelligence comes into view.
If we are coming from hebrew roots,....you would know that YHWH is Our Heavenly FATHER, and the Messiah is always a MAN anointed by God to rule and govern the people as the head of God's kingdom, from the lineage of David. (various beliefs about the Messiah being in some sense divine exist, but will focus on the current points for now). Therefore to say 'God the Father' ALONE is the Progenitor of all, the First Source and Center of all things and beings, is logical, rational, and is fundamentally Unitarian, wholly monotheistic,....God who is Spirit, being INFINITE and INCORPOREAL. This is 'Our Father-God'. - any corporeal, figurative, conceptual, finite, human form, temporal personality, dimensional expression in space or time, is but the OFFSPRING of The Universal Father. The Father always retains primacy. There is 'God', then there are the Sons/sons of God.
Now as far as it being considered 'idolatry' to worship the Son as we do the Father,...I dont think so....as long as we understand that Jesus represents 'God'. Any person in power/authority, representing 'God' can also be called 'elohim', so in that 'role' is 'god' - we can metaphysically split hairs of course,...and differentiate this and that, between persons, essence, image or spiritual likeness,...but when we consider MAN himself,...He is the image/likeness of 'God' so when man is operating according to his own divine original creative power and according to God's law....he is 'God' in action. We are the sons of God....individual expressions of Deity, albiet in physical form, having also comparitive psychic and spiritual qualities and attributes originating from 'God'.
Jesus as the Son of God/Son of Man,...is a prototypal forerunner or figure of the perfected Man, the last or second Adam,....we in 'Christ' are this Adam, who is a life-giving spirit now, potentially invested by the Spirit with immortality, and the promise of living in the ages to come. (eternal life,....life into the ages, the eons). - as long as we are in rapport with the living Spirit, in harmony and willing with 'God',...before us our chosen path to Life is secured.
I've written a bit on this, but you can get a good sense of my view expounded here. First of all we must consider both 'personal' and 'non-personal' aspects of 'God', and this gets into deeper dimensions of the divine nature, its qualities/attributes. When dealing with the Spirit of God in a universal or generic sense, whether we attribute any 'personality' to the Spirit will depend on the context of our use of the term 'spirit', relatively speaking. Only as the Spirit is acting in a personal way, or communicating AS a personality, could we attribute any personality to it. There are aspects of Deity that are pre-personal, personal, super-personal, trans-personal, and more. Remember....Deity is ifninite.
This is all a matter of interepretation, term-meaning and context. The Son is EVER subordinate to the Father, whether you choose a Unitarian or Trinitarian context. The word(logos), is the plan, logic, reason, revelation, expressive thought, wisdom of the Father made flesh, so surely Jesus was the word made flesh. - figuratively speaking. If you want to make this 'literal' somehow,..you still have the writer here using a greek philosophical concept of 'logos' for his own Christology,...and note only HE uses this concept expressly, no other gospel writer. And still he summarizes his message in the belief that Jesus is the SON of God being the primary means by which one receives eternal life, that Jesus is the SON of God, not God. Again,...we can split hairs here, since in one sense we can surely affirm Jesus is NOT God, and on another level, we can say that Jesus is 'elohim', a representative of 'God'. But in reality, only 'God' is 'God' ....while all else is but an expression, manifestation, pure revelation or distorted image of God. Only 'God' is the one universal pure incorporeal SPIRIT. - all else are intellectual, material and spiritual FORMS.
Lots of ways to interpret this - the whole community of Israel, is God's SON, his collective Messiah, this includes all souls intentionally invested by God to have a part in his will and plan of life in the cosmos. - all the little details are descriptions and allegories our intellects concoct or piece together to make sense of it all. These all merge into One anyways, to make all lovers of God into 'Israel'. 'Isreal' is God's Son, his Messiah.
lol, well of course - to some anyways.
Its a collection of books subject to interpretation, and we see from the entire extant manuscript collection that there are variations within the text. Even with some touting 'sola scriptura!',...you have dozens of speical theology clubs, salvation protocols and religious programs to choose from within Christendom.
This is cute,....but one can still respect/honor and reverence the Lord Jesus without NEEDING to claim he is YHWH. Jesus is still 'God' revealing himself in man, and thru A MAN,....but one does NOT need to Make Jesus into an all supreme DEITY. It is fine to see the fullness of the divinity dwell in Jesus as a manifestation of God, and that figuratively speaking is appropriate to assume, but even better if you can become a manifestation of God, by the perfection of the Christ IN US, living and expressing itself. WHich is really what the point or aim of being 'perfect like our Heavenly Father' is.
If we are the Temple of God, then God is manifesting/revealing/expressing himself thru US. We are his hands, feet, body, VOICE....his logos. We are the walking tabernacles,...the glory of God on earth, the Christos. This is it. Either we reveal 'God' the Spirit in His qualities, attributes, spiritual fruits...or there is no free expression of this on earth to speak of, besides some nebulous life force or being out there.
Having some Unitarian fun..........
Hi EE
- first of all, if you follow my sharings,...I've contended that a Unitarian, Trinitarian or other-arian (lol) view is just fine, as long as we follow Jesus, love 'God' and others, and walk in the Spirit. I think you agree on these core essential truths and values My Christology is all-inclusive, as far as using whatever is profitable or at least conceptually tenable. Of course some views, opinions or beliefs can be more helpful than others, but thats where spiritual discernment and intelligence comes into view.
If we are coming from hebrew roots,....you would know that YHWH is Our Heavenly FATHER, and the Messiah is always a MAN anointed by God to rule and govern the people as the head of God's kingdom, from the lineage of David. (various beliefs about the Messiah being in some sense divine exist, but will focus on the current points for now). Therefore to say 'God the Father' ALONE is the Progenitor of all, the First Source and Center of all things and beings, is logical, rational, and is fundamentally Unitarian, wholly monotheistic,....God who is Spirit, being INFINITE and INCORPOREAL. This is 'Our Father-God'. - any corporeal, figurative, conceptual, finite, human form, temporal personality, dimensional expression in space or time, is but the OFFSPRING of The Universal Father. The Father always retains primacy. There is 'God', then there are the Sons/sons of God.
Now as far as it being considered 'idolatry' to worship the Son as we do the Father,...I dont think so....as long as we understand that Jesus represents 'God'. Any person in power/authority, representing 'God' can also be called 'elohim', so in that 'role' is 'god' - we can metaphysically split hairs of course,...and differentiate this and that, between persons, essence, image or spiritual likeness,...but when we consider MAN himself,...He is the image/likeness of 'God' so when man is operating according to his own divine original creative power and according to God's law....he is 'God' in action. We are the sons of God....individual expressions of Deity, albiet in physical form, having also comparitive psychic and spiritual qualities and attributes originating from 'God'.
Jesus as the Son of God/Son of Man,...is a prototypal forerunner or figure of the perfected Man, the last or second Adam,....we in 'Christ' are this Adam, who is a life-giving spirit now, potentially invested by the Spirit with immortality, and the promise of living in the ages to come. (eternal life,....life into the ages, the eons). - as long as we are in rapport with the living Spirit, in harmony and willing with 'God',...before us our chosen path to Life is secured.
I've written a bit on this, but you can get a good sense of my view expounded here. First of all we must consider both 'personal' and 'non-personal' aspects of 'God', and this gets into deeper dimensions of the divine nature, its qualities/attributes. When dealing with the Spirit of God in a universal or generic sense, whether we attribute any 'personality' to the Spirit will depend on the context of our use of the term 'spirit', relatively speaking. Only as the Spirit is acting in a personal way, or communicating AS a personality, could we attribute any personality to it. There are aspects of Deity that are pre-personal, personal, super-personal, trans-personal, and more. Remember....Deity is ifninite.
This is all a matter of interepretation, term-meaning and context. The Son is EVER subordinate to the Father, whether you choose a Unitarian or Trinitarian context. The word(logos), is the plan, logic, reason, revelation, expressive thought, wisdom of the Father made flesh, so surely Jesus was the word made flesh. - figuratively speaking. If you want to make this 'literal' somehow,..you still have the writer here using a greek philosophical concept of 'logos' for his own Christology,...and note only HE uses this concept expressly, no other gospel writer. And still he summarizes his message in the belief that Jesus is the SON of God being the primary means by which one receives eternal life, that Jesus is the SON of God, not God. Again,...we can split hairs here, since in one sense we can surely affirm Jesus is NOT God, and on another level, we can say that Jesus is 'elohim', a representative of 'God'. But in reality, only 'God' is 'God' ....while all else is but an expression, manifestation, pure revelation or distorted image of God. Only 'God' is the one universal pure incorporeal SPIRIT. - all else are intellectual, material and spiritual FORMS.
Lots of ways to interpret this
- the whole community of Israel, is God's SON, his collective Messiah, this includes all souls intentionally invested by God to have a part in his will and plan of life in the cosmos. - all the little details are descriptions and allegories our intellects concoct or piece together to make sense of it all. These all merge into One anyways, to make all lovers of God into 'Israel'. 'Isreal' is God's Son, his Messiah.lol, well of course
- to some anyways. Its a collection of books subject to interpretation, and we see from the entire extant manuscript collection that there are variations within the text. Even with some touting 'sola scriptura!',...you have dozens of speical theology clubs, salvation protocols and religious programs to choose from within Christendom.
This is cute,....but one can still respect/honor and reverence the Lord Jesus without NEEDING to claim he is YHWH. Jesus is still 'God' revealing himself in man, and thru A MAN,....but one does NOT need to Make Jesus into an all supreme DEITY. It is fine to see the fullness of the divinity dwell in Jesus as a manifestation of God, and that figuratively speaking is appropriate to assume, but even better if you can become a manifestation of God, by the perfection of the Christ IN US, living and expressing itself. WHich is really what the point or aim of being 'perfect like our Heavenly Father' is.
If we are the Temple of God, then God is manifesting/revealing/expressing himself thru US. We are his hands, feet, body, VOICE....his logos. We are the walking tabernacles,...the glory of God on earth, the Christos. This is it. Either we reveal 'God' the Spirit in His qualities, attributes, spiritual fruits...or there is no free expression of this on earth to speak of, besides some nebulous life force or being out there.
Think about this Meshak. If you sow absolute truth far and wide, and ten people hear it, and double check what you said against the scriptures, and those ten people believe and are changed: you then have ten children in the faith even if you do not know them in person as in such a place like this. And if those ten people go and do the same you would then have an hundred children. That means you would have produced fruit in the kingdom an hundredfold, (because if you have absolute truth you would no doubt be sharing Messiah by way his Testimony and his and our Father). Now therefore, if you have an hundred children, then the truth which you shared with them will grow in them because the Seed is the Word, (so long as you preach the Word which is the absolute truth). You therefore will live through those children, and their children, by what you have shared in love. You might even end up with a thousand children and live for a thousand years.
Hi EE
My Christology is all-inclusive, as far as using whatever is profitable or at least conceptually tenable. Of course some views, opinions or beliefs can be more helpful than others, but thats where spiritual discernment and intelligence comes into view.
Spoiler
My typical mannerism is to agree with citing all views and calling for peace in the "Name" of Mashiach... however... I came here because of Israel. Christian Anti-Semitism and denial of God's desire to honor His Promises to Israel is rooted in the "false" understanding of what "Spiritual Israel" actually means. It has become the cornerstone of replacement theology.
Daqq knew what lines to cross to make this possible and unfortunately I have been wielding sword against my friend and brother because of this matter.
I love what you have written and I knew you would be a voice of reason in this matter. I have accomplished what I was trying to accomplish, but Daqq and myself fighting was not my desire. I will avoid duplicity on my part and simply say...
With Daqq embracing replacement theology and myself apposing it... it was inevitable.
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