Once saved NOT necessarily always saved.

[Charity]

OSAS...

Before debating the "always saved" part, can we address the "once saved" part? As in, first believing and being regenerate is not synonymous with "saved." That's confusing the beginning of the journey with the end.

As parables and allegories go, I think Pilgrim's Progress explains it well. You enter at the wicket gate... and then you have a long journey ahead of you before you reach that heavenly city.

Jarrod

Naturally the seed has to accomplish numbers, the promised estate, to achieve a heaven.
The historical promised estate, elected Blood line has well an truly been drowned in the heaven theory. I suspect its Natural for the un promised nation to install a door way.

 

[Bright Raven]

My question to all is this...
What does God being a jealous God have to do with once saved, always saved?
Why did God give us the OT?
What was the recurrent theme of the OT?
Since Israel had free will, were they allowed to forsake God?
Did God tolerate backsliding from Israel?
What sort of things happened to Israel when they forsook God?
The OT was given for our learning. What should we learn from this?

God is BIG on jealousy. Here are verses where He says this.

Exodus 20:5
Exodus 34:14
Deuteronomy 5:9
Joshua 24:19
Ezekiel 36:5
Ezekiel 36:6
Ezekiel 39:25
Nahum 1:2
2 Corinthians 11:2

Old Testament was under the Law.
The New Testament is under Grace.

 

[serpentdove]

Hell (the grave) will go away.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14 NKJV)​

Your punishment will be everlasting (Matt. 25:41, 46, 2 Thess. 1:9). It needs to be because you have offended a holy and eternal being.

As a reminder jamie is number 18 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib:

 

[iouae]

Glorydaz and Angel4Truth both refuse to even acknowledge folks they knew who loved the Lord and no longer do. Instead they pretend it does not happen. And if it does, they refuse to talk about this.

I am not going to get distracted from this question. Do you know someone like this? I am not judging them or asking you to - just acknowledge it as a fact.

Or if no such person exists, then let us acknowledge that. Lets get real for a moment.

 

[iouae]

Gods jealousy is about being zealous for what belongs to Him, not jealous in the human sense.

See: http://www.gotquestions.org/jealous-God.html

Did you read the verses? He is jealous in a VERY HUMAN SENSE. Just like He uses language in a very human sense. And when He says He is Jealous, don't try to shut Him up.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Glorydaz and Angel4Truth both refuse to even acknowledge folks they knew who loved the Lord and no longer do. Instead they pretend it does not happen. And if it does, they refuse to talk about this.

I am not going to get distracted from this question. Do you know someone like this? I am not judging them or asking you to - just acknowledge it as a fact.

Or if no such person exists, then let us acknowledge that. Lets get real for a moment.

You arent answering any questions you dont like, do you think we cant see that?

Discussion is give and take, do try to respond with answers to questions asked of you in return.

 

[iouae]

Old Testament was under the Law.
The New Testament is under Grace.

But God does not change. Jealousy is a trait of His character?

Do you think He will tolerate a Christian turning his back on Him any more than He tolerated Israel doing so?


Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[Bright Raven]

But God does not change. Jealousy is a trait of His character?

Do you think He will tolerate a Christian turning his back on Him any more than He tolerated Israel doing so?


Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

:ha: So you are saying that if you screw up God will turn his back on you?

 

[iouae]

You arent answering any questions you dont like, do you think we cant see that?

Discussion is give and take, do try to respond with answers to questions asked of you in return.

Ask me any one question not a whole barrage and I will answer it.

Now in the spirit of "give", do you know such a person who has forsaken the Lord after once being on fire?

 

[Charity]

... acquit an inaquit Knowledge are power, good an bad will. an to have or not have is to fail, pull down, an accomplish wise judgement an justice with the tounge. even here/a.

 

[jamie]

So then, because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. (Revelation 3:16 NKJV)​

 

[iouae]

:ha: So you are saying that if you screw up God will turn his back on you?

We all screw up.
Drawing back is far more serious. If we draw back from God, which is entirely possible, and reject the faith, God says he will have no pleasure in that person. And if God has no pleasure in the faithless, they will not be with Him for eternity displeasing Him. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

Hebrews 10:38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

 

[Angel4Truth]

So you are judging them instead of allowing God to do it?



Depends, if they are saying their works saved them and then that happened, you bet i would say they were never saved in the first place, since they are trusting their actions instead of His.



It happens in relationships and marriages and friendships when its based on selfishness and selfish desires instead of actual love.

Define love, im not thinking you understand the meaning.

Ask me any one question not a whole barrage and I will answer it.

Now in the spirit of "give", do you know such a person who has forsaken the Lord after once being on fire?

Do i know a persons heart who maintains they are believer whose witness bore the gospel but who are having troubles, yep. Happens all the time, can i maintain they have forsaken the Lord? Nope, im not Him to know that, i do know He says He will never leave or forsake us and i believe Him, not you.

 

[Bright Raven]

We all screw up.
Drawing back is far more serious. If we draw back from God, which is entirely possible, and reject the faith, God says he will have no pleasure in that person. And if God has no pleasure in the faithless, they will not be with Him for eternity displeasing Him. For without faith it is impossible to please God.

Hebrews 10:38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

If you have rejected the faith you never had a relationship to begin with.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If you have rejected the faith you never had a relationship to begin with.

:thumb:

 

[iouae]

If you have rejected the faith you never had a relationship to begin with.

And the seed that fell on the rocky soil never really germinated and grew??

That seed on rocky ground is called a believer, yet just for a short while and lacking endurance.

He that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Why say this? Why not just say endurance or no endurance a believer is saved?

 

[Angel4Truth]

And the seed that fell on the rocky soil never really germinated and grew??

That seed on rocky ground is called a believer, yet just for a short while and lacking endurance.

How were they christians when the cross had not happened yet? What is the audience being spoken to, under law or under grace?

 

[serpentdove]

Exactly.

We all know someone who was on fire for God and now no longer care.
Why would God spend eternity with those who care nothing for Him any more, or who now are hostile or critical of Him? Would you or I want to? No.

Right. Choices have consequences. In their rebellion they help show how good God is. We wouldn't know about all of his attributes without them (Ro 9:22). He cares about your love for him (Mk 12:29-30) and your love for others (Mk 12:31).

 

[serpentdove]

Did you read the verses? He is jealous in a VERY HUMAN SENSE. Just like He uses language in a very human sense. And when He says He is Jealous, don't try to shut Him up.

Oprah Winfrey refused to believe in the God of scripture because he is described as jealous (Ex. 20:5). J. Vernon McGee said if a man was not jealous for his wife, he did not love her.

 

[heir]

Nothing you quoted here guarantees you eternal life.

Contrariwise! That's exactly what the seal is, the earnest of our inheritance!

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Sheep have to listen to his voice and follow Him. Those sheep nobody can snatch from Him.[/QUOTE]We are not likened to sheep, but a new creature 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV. It is Israel who are likened to that of sheep (Matthew 15:24 KJV)

Christ speaks positively and emphatically and optimistically about all making it, but read the fine print verses with "endure to the end", "he that overcommeth" type phrases.

Again, to whom Christ was sent Matthew 15:24 KJV. You can put your hand over your eyes and ignore it all you want, but it doesn't change the fact!