On Rape (the original statement)

[ok doser]

That in no way means that they chose to be raped. Made some poor decisions? Yes. Made the choice to be raped? Um no.

It seems that would make them partly at fault, but it was not their choice to be raped.

would you be more comfortable if it was worded "made the choice to put themselves in a position where rape was not only likely, but inevitable, and thus bear a degree of responsibility for the result"?

If someone left their keys in their car door and someone stole their car, is that no longer theft?

Consider the following: a person parks their car in the ghetto on a warm summer evening and leaves the door open and the engine running and walks away from it

I would say that they had made the choice to have it stolen

this takes nothing away from the criminal action of the thief that does steal the car, but recognizes the contributing factors in the car owner's actions

 

[kmoney]

would you be more comfortable if it was worded "made the choice to put themselves in a position where rape was not only likely, but inevitable, and thus bear a degree of responsibility for the result"?


Consider the following: a person parks their car in the ghetto on a warm summer evening and leaves the door open and the engine running and walks away from it

I would say that they had made the choice to have it stolen

this takes nothing away from the criminal action of the thief that does steal the car, but recognizes the contributing factors in the car owner's actions

It would never be inevitable. The offender still makes that choice. Recognizing things the victim could have done differently is one thing, but I'm not sure where you want to go with it. If there is an attempt to put some of the blame on the victim and lessen the punishment of the offender then I wouldn't agree with that. The offender should still face whatever punishment they would face if the victim had done things differently.

I live in an area where winters are cold. It can be nice to warm your car up before you actually leave. I believe there is a law in my city prohibiting letting your car run unattended (unless the car has a remote start) in an effort to not encourage theft. I don't know what the penalty is. Perhaps some sort of fine. Are you trying to institute something like that in cases of rape? Or are you assigning some responsibility to the victim without any practical consequence?

 

[ok doser]

It would never be inevitable.

it should be seen that way - it's the way i would describe it to my daughters (if i had any)

The offender still makes that choice.

of course, and should bear the responsibility for the consequences of his actions and choices

what is contentious is that I am arguing that the woman should also bear responsibility for the consequences of her actions and choices

Are you trying to institute something like that in cases of rape? Or are you assigning some responsibility to the victim without any practical consequence?

i find myself in an environment here on campus where the woman's actions are never seen as contributory when they clearly are

 

[chrysostom]

What's the point in asking a question like that?

to make you think

sorry about that

 

[ok doser]

to make you think

sorry about that

don't do it again! :sibbie:

 

[Tambora]

Did ok doser rape someone, and is looking for a defense for the awful thing he did?
Or is he just wanting to rape someone, and is trying to build a defense beforehand so he won't feel like such a pervert?

 

[ok doser]

Does a woman choose to be raped?

yes


wait - haven't i already been clear on that?

 

[ok doser]

Did ok doser rape someone, and is looking for a defense for the awful thing he did?
Or is he just wanting to rape someone, and is trying to build a defense beforehand?

:darwinsm:

:thumb:




no tam - i'm spending an awful lot of time on a liberal campus, taking a sophomore sociology class that refuses to recognize that a woman's behavior can be partly responsible for the consequences that ensue




probably as good a place as any for this:

...

Harvey Korman: "Charming. Sign right here." :darwinsm:

 

[Quetzal]

Did ok doser rape someone, and is looking for a defense for the awful thing he did?
Or is he just wanting to rape someone, and is trying to build a defense beforehand so he won't feel like such a pervert?

:chuckle:

 

[chrysostom]

Does a woman choose to be raped?

yes

my problem is the question
and
not the answer

the question does not make sense

you can't choose to be raped
it is not possible
so
why the question?

 

[annabenedetti]

This isn't about me.


Does a woman choose to be raped?

yes

I already know what you think (and can't defend, obviously). That question was for chrys.

 

[annabenedetti]

my problem is the question
and
not the answer

the question does not make sense

you can't choose to be raped
it is not possible
so
why the question?

sod says a woman can choose to be raped. You said yourself that "some have" chosen to be raped. You and sod can try to defend the indefensible.

 

[ok doser]

my problem is the question
and
not the answer

the question does not make sense

you can't choose to be raped
it is not possible

great point!

so
why the question?

it's an emotional response to something she finds uncomfortable

 

[chrysostom]

I already know what you think (and can't defend, obviously). That question was for chrys.

and like so many of your questions

they cannot be answered

and

you won't answer the ones that can be answered

 

[annabenedetti]

no tam - i'm spending an awful lot of time on a liberal campus, taking a sophomore sociology class that refuses to recognize that a woman's behavior can be partly responsible for the consequences that ensue

A class in which you're afraid to have an "unpopular" opinion.

 

[ok doser]

and like so many of your questions

they cannot be answered

and

you won't answer the ones that can be answered

i'd like to see her answer this one:

should a woman bear any responsibility for the choices she makes that put her in a position where rape is likely?

 

[Tambora]

a woman's behavior can be partly responsible for the consequences that ensue

You are a moron.
If you rape someone, YOU are guilty of rape, not the one you raped.

 

[ok doser]

A class in which you're afraid to have an "unpopular" opinion.

a class in which i'm unwilling to voice an opinion that would be contentious

 

[annabenedetti]

and like so many of your questions

they cannot be answered

and

you won't answer the ones that can be answered

As usual, you sidle at me sideways.

Did you ask me a question on this thread that I haven't answered?

 

[Quetzal]

You are a moron.
If you rape someone, YOU are guilty of rape, not the one you raped.

I wouldn't bother. It is a fruitless discussion.