On Rape (the original statement)

[annabenedetti]

Do you have sympathy for men falsely accused and even convicted of rapes they did not commit? I ask because I do have a point directly related to this thread.

Of course you will disagree with every word I just typed, assuming you bothered to read them.

Okay, so I got to this point and remembered what you said to me the other day:

lain:

Your opinions have never meant anything to me because, at the root of them all, is nothing but your feelings about things. There's no rational discussion to be had with someone who operates on that level.

And then I wondered.... why would you ask for an opinion from me, someone whose opinions mean nothing to you?

Because you just needed a step for that super-highhorse soapbox of yours, that's why. :chuckle:

And that's why you went from there to:

I've come to expect nothing less. Emotion is her drive, not rational thought.

And:

I know, it has been said many times...just figured a condensed version would make heads explode afresh.

So, no thanks. I'm not going to waste my time on your games.

Again, this thread is about sod's assertion that "rape is a choice that women make."

 

[Tambora]

My take on the premise of this thread? The author was seeking validation for rapists whenever the victim has behaved foolishly or provocatively. I adamantly oppose this position.

Yep.
And to do that causes a very slippery slope.

Just where is that fine line between provocative and non-provocative?
Once you start claiming that a provocative woman is asking for it, where does that line stop?

What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
I would venture to say that there is no such line.

Rape happens whether a woman is being provocative or not.
Elderly woman are raped in their own home while in bed wearing flannel pjs and curlers in her hair.
Being provocative has nothing to do with whether a woman will be raped.

So, what is the real motive for attempting to establish a standard in which woman must act and dress in order to NOT be accused of "asking for it"?

If history has taught us anything, it is that if your start a list of women's actions that falls under the "she asked for it" category; that list is going to domino on down till there is nothing left to excuse the woman of "asking for it".

We have the Muslims restricting their women to the extreme, and yet they still get raped.

So, instead of going for the shock value of extreme cases, let talk about the least extreme cases and see how this argument pans out.


What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
Is there such a thing?

 

[bybee]

Yep.
And to do that causes a very slippery slope.

Just where is that fine line between provocative and non-provocative?
Once you start claiming that a provocative woman is asking for it, where does that line stop?

What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
I would venture to say that there is no such line.

Rape happens whether a woman is being provocative or not.
Elderly woman are raped in their own home while in bed wearing flannel pjs and curlers in her hair.
Being provocative has nothing to do with whether a woman will be raped.

So, what is the real motive for attempting to establish a standard in which woman must act and dress in order to NOT be accused of "asking for it"?

If history has taught us anything, it is that if your start a list of women's actions that falls under the "she asked for it" category; that list is going to domino on down till there is nothing left to excuse the woman of "asking for it".

We have the Muslims restricting their women to the extreme, and yet they still get raped.

So, instead of going for the shock value of extreme cases, let talk about the least extreme cases and see how this argument pans out.


What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
Is there such a thing?

I don't believe there is because even dead women are raped.

 

[Tambora]

Do you have sympathy for men falsely accused and even convicted of rapes they did not commit? I ask because I do have a point directly related to this thread.

We could just use the excuse ok doser uses ....... He shouldn't have put himself in that situation. He was asking for it. He is just as guilty. And you should tell him that you have no sympathy for him because he is guilty of putting himself in that situation.

How does it sound now?

 

[annabenedetti]

Yep.
And to do that causes a very slippery slope.

Just where is that fine line between provocative and non-provocative?
Once you start claiming that a provocative woman is asking for it, where does that line stop?

What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
I would venture to say that there is no such line.

Rape happens whether a woman is being provocative or not.
Elderly woman are raped in their own home while in bed wearing flannel pjs and curlers in her hair.
Being provocative has nothing to do with whether a woman will be raped.

So, what is the real motive for attempting to establish a standard in which woman must act and dress in order to NOT be accused of "asking for it"?

If history has taught us anything, it is that if your start a list of women's actions that falls under the "she asked for it" category; that list is going to domino on down till there is nothing left to excuse the woman of "asking for it".

We have the Muslims restricting their women to the extreme, and yet they still get raped.

So, instead of going for the shock value of extreme cases, let talk about the least extreme cases and see how this argument pans out.


What is the least amount of provocativeness a woman can display without any fear of being raped?
Is there such a thing?

A few pages back I said this:

Not so. One person's "slut" is someone with a short skirt. Come on, you know it.

And got this response:

A short skirt and stipping naked and lap dancing are the same thing?

They arent. Come on, you know it.

So, yeah. These are the people who want to draw their own lines for other woman to stand inside, so they can judge those women in order to hold them culpable for the sexual violence done to them.


And Tambora, that was very well said. I'm standing in appreciation for the clarity of your words.

 

[bybee]

We could just use the excuse ok doser uses ....... He shouldn't have put himself in that situation. He was asking for it. He is just as guilty. And you should tell him that you have no sympathy for him because he is guilty of putting himself in that situation.

How does it sound now?

You nailed that one!

 

[Tambora]

I don't believe there is because even dead women are raped.

Exactly.
Rape is not about how sexy a woman is dressed or acting.
It happens to all types of women.

 

[Quetzal]

So... why is this still here? Doser has retreated like a coward to some other shadowy corner of the internet and here we are...

 

[bybee]

Exactly.
Rape is not about how sexy a woman is dressed or acting.
It happens to all types of women.

I saw a blurb on Facebook wherein a young man robbed and raped a 101 year old woman in her bed.
There was also a blurb wherein the(I think) Swedish police had to pull a Muslim immigrant off the dead body of a young woman who had been gang raped to death.
Rape is an act of violence.

 

[bybee]

I would say date rape gets the guy off the hook. I mean making out, getting nude and then saying no?

That has some defense for the guy does it not?

A bunch of guys swimming in the nude and one gets raped. Is he asking for it?

 

[Quincy]

I haven't met a man who believed that statement is true, that didn't actually turn out to hold a grudge against all women. It's quite an irrational thing to say and most irrational statements stem from some sort of emotional response.

It happens and people are entitled to their own view, however crazy. What bothers me is that people with far out ideas think they have a right to express them but other people don't have a right to contradict it or are [insert insult] if they do. Some even think contradiction is the same thing as persecution. It's a..... misogynist trait :chuckle: .

 

[Tambora]

I saw a blurb on Facebook wherein a young man robbed and raped a 101 year old woman in her bed.
There was also a blurb wherein the(I think) Swedish police had to pull a Muslim immigrant off the dead body of a young woman who had been gang raped to death.
Rape is an act of violence.

Yep.

This whole thing is just a smokescreen to control women at the whims of men.

Have you noticed that there has been no charge against the guys that show up for a frat party?
They were just asking for a rape charge, cause you know, they put themselves in an unsavory environment.
They should have expected a rape charge to occur.
Where is the line drawn in the sand for these men?

 

[Tambora]

A bunch of guys swimming in the nude and one gets raped. Is he asking for it?

Or ......
A guy is at the gym.
All dressed in his gym shorts and tank top, flexing his muscles.
How dare him show up dressed and acting like that, knowing that it might entice some women (and some men too) to want him sexually.
We need to set a standard of how men should dress and act, as to not arouse anyone.

Ridiculous.

 

[annabenedetti]

Strange how women are allowed to use the "Not my fault, I was drunk" defense, but men never can.

Strange how you would think a victim of rape has need of a defense.

If a man is a rapist, drunk or not, he's the one committing the crime.

Just bumping this for the idea of some that a victim should need a defense.

 

[Quincy]

A bunch of guys swimming in the nude and one gets raped. Is he asking for it?

Good point!

If you believe rape victims asked for it, then you'd also have to think thieves aren't to blame for stealing. If only people didn't have nice things, they wouldn't get stolen. If only people didn't put money in banks, it wouldn't get stolen. If only people didn't reproduce, there wouldn't be children kidnapped and sold into slavery.

You could go on and on and on. I'm not trying to trivialize rape, mind you but this blaming the victim syndrome nullifies every crime ever commited. And if someone doesn't think it does, then they must have a problem with women, period.

 

[Tambora]

A few pages back I said this:

Not so. One person's "slut" is someone with a short skirt. Come on, you know it.

And got this response:

A short skirt and stipping naked and lap dancing are the same thing?

They arent. Come on, you know it.

So, yeah. These are the people who want to draw their own lines for other woman to stand inside, so they can judge those women in order to hold them culpable for the sexual violence done to them.


And Tambora, that was very well said. I'm standing in appreciation for the clarity of your words.

Yes, Anna.

Just take the 'short skirt' by itself.
What is too short?
Two inches above the knee?
Men might still be enticed, so let's drop it down to knee level.
Men might still be enticed, so let's drop it down to two inches below the knee.
Men might still be enticed, so ................

The fact is, there is no set length that can stop a rapist.

You can dress a woman like this:

and they will still be in danger of being raped.

 

[WizardofOz]

Exactly.
Rape is not about how sexy a woman is dressed or acting.
It happens to all types of women.

She was drunk at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was dressed provacatively...therefore
She was wearing a dress...therefore

This type of thinking is how women end up dressed like this:

Spoiler

Anything less and she's partly to blame.

Heck the women on the left is showing some ankle. She's just asking for it :hammer:

 

[Tambora]

So... why is this still here? Doser has retreated like a coward to some other shadowy corner of the internet and here we are...

Don't need him.
He has already shown what a complete moron he is on this subject.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I would say date rape gets the guy off the hook. I mean making out, getting nude and then saying no?

That has some defense for the guy does it not?

No, not at all. Once a person says no then that's it, end of story. Doesn't matter if they've flirted with you all night, gave all the come on signals, stripped or even during intercourse itself. If they tell you to stop and you go ahead then you're raping that person and you do not 'get off the hook' for that, at all.

 

[Tambora]

She was drunk at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was at a frat party...therefore she bears responsibility for being raped
She was dressed provacatively...therefore
She was wearing a dress...therefore

This type of thinking is how women end up dressed like this:

Spoiler

Anything less and she's partly to blame.

Heck the women on the left is showing some ankle. She's just asking for it :hammer:

It is utterly ridiculous.

And you have stalkers that claim a woman was really in love with them because she looked at him and smiled.

So now you can't let women look at anyone or smile at anyone, cause you know, they would be asking for it.