Nontrinitarianism

[Bright Raven]

Jesus the Christ did not "exist" before His miraculous birth as the Savior of the world?

It is written that the wise men, when finding Jesus the Christ, worshiped Him.

Why did they worship Him?

Thank you kindly.

Connect the dots;

John 1:1-5Modern English Version (MEV)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

5 The light shines in darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it.

 

[jamie]

Consider that Jesus was born, that makes him a creation.

The preincarnate Christ was born as Jesus, a human.

 

[OCTOBER23]

SINCE NO ONE READS OR REPLIES TO MY POSTS

THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO BE HERE.

BYE - SEE YOU IN THE KINGDOM.

:rapture:

 

[keypurr]

Connect the dots;

John 1:1-5Modern English Version (MEV)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

5 The light shines in darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it.

Now all you have to do is find out who the word is.
Hint: It is not Jesus for he is flesh.

 

[keypurr]

SINCE NO ONE READS OR REPLIES TO MY POSTS

THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO BE HERE.

BYE - SEE YOU IN THE KINGDOM.

:rapture:

I read them. Stay

 

[RevTestament]

SINCE NO ONE READS OR REPLIES TO MY POSTS

THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO BE HERE.

Perhaps that is because everyone realizes you are Omega, and they have read your same stuff hundreds of times...
at least you have stopped with the comet-earth collision predictions...

BYE - SEE YOU IN THE KINGDOM.

:rapture:

Well, I hope so despite your animosity towards LDS Christianity.
P.S. If it is any consolation, your 2024 prediction is not totally without some merit even if it is a lucky guess in a string of not-so-lucky guesses...until then have a good life.

 

[CherubRam]

Connect the dots;

John 1:1-5Modern English Version (MEV)


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind.

5 The light shines in darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it.

Him who? God, or Yahshua? Greek word TON and THEON.
From the Scripture4All program. Link: http://www.scripture4all.org/

The Greek word "TON" is translated 1583 times as "the;" And 18 times as "the -one." It is used before nouns to mean a {certain-one-person-s,} or place, or thing. However, different translations of Greek do not always agree. That is the reason for my translatation of John 1:1 as "the only Divine Eternal." In English the word “one” can also be translated as “only.” TON: The only. THEON: Divine Eternal.

John 1:1

Greek:
en arche eimi ho logos kai ho logos eimi pros ton theon kai theos eimi ho logos

Interlinear:
en (in) arche (beginning) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word) kai (and) ho (the) logos (word) eimi (was) pos (toward or with) ton (TON is a special definite article "the" meaning the one or only, it appears as TON instead of O in the Greek) theon (Divine Eternal) kai (and) theos (divine) eimi (was) ho (the) logos (word)

In English we have:
In beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the only Divine Eternal, and divine was the Word.

The word THEOS translates as Devine, but the word GOD is often given as an interpretation.

Why do translators drop off the definite article TON (the one or only) before Divine Eternal?

Your brother in Christ, Michael.

 

[achduke]

Now all you have to do is find out who the word is.
Hint: It is not Jesus for he is flesh.

This an area not many talk about when talking about trinitarians vs non-trinitarians.

1) Who or What is the Word?

2) Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

3) How does the Word relate to the Holy Spirit?

4) The Bible talks about many Messengers of God. Are their multiple Holy Spirits?

5) How do the 7 Spirits relate to God and the Holy Spirit?

6) Why did Jesus have to go away before he could send the Holy Spirit?

Isaiah 11:1-3
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of might,
the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord—
3 and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.



Revelation 3:1
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.
“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 1:4
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne

Revelation 4:5
5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God,

Revelation 5:6
6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw na Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Zechariah 3:9
9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,’ says the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.

Zechariah 4:10
10 “Who dares despise the day of small things, since the seven eyes of the Lord that range throughout the earth will rejoice when they see the chosen capstonea in the hand of Zerubbabel?”

John 16:7
7But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

 

[jamie]

Read Jamie's quote. It said clearly it is talking about His Father, not Jesus.

It's foolish to try to divide the unity that binds Father and Son.

 

[jamie]

Consider that Jesus was born, that makes him a creation.

Jesus was born of woman like the rest of us, but how many of us lived before we were born?

You seem to be hung up on Jesus' birth and ignore the fact the Word who was made flesh existed at the beginning. What beginning? Any beginning you want the Word was already there.

Can a Spirit become human by saying "presto chango"? A Spirit can only become human by human birth.

In the beginning was the Word... (John 1:1 NKJV)
​

Don't try to change that.

 

[CherubRam]

SINCE NO ONE READS OR REPLIES TO MY POSTS

THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO BE HERE.

BYE - SEE YOU IN THE KINGDOM.

:rapture:

I have been reading what you write. Sometimes I even reply. Lately you have not said anything to compel me to reply.

 

[RevTestament]

Jesus was born of woman like the rest of us, but how many of us lived before we were born?

You seem to be hung up on Jesus' birth and ignore the fact the Word who was made flesh existed at the beginning. What beginning? Any beginning you want the Word was already there.

Can a Spirit become human by saying "presto chango"? A Spirit can only become human by human birth.

In the beginning was the Word... (John 1:1 NKJV)
​

Don't try to change that.

You make a good point that a spirit can only become human by human birth, and becoming a living soul...
But that doesn't mean the spirit God breathed into our created bodies was also created or came from this creation...
Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Maybe Jeremiah really was "like" Christ, but just didn't remember:
Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

[brinny]

SINCE NO ONE READS OR REPLIES TO MY POSTS

THEN THERE IS NO REASON FOR ME TO BE HERE.

BYE - SEE YOU IN THE KINGDOM.

:rapture:

i read your posts when i see them. I've replied to a post of yours in a thread i began.

If you were to express what's on yer mind here in this thread, what would you say?

Thank you kindly.

 

[RevTestament]

This an area not many talk about when talking about trinitarians vs non-trinitarians.

1) Who or What is the Word?

2) Who or what is the Holy Spirit?

3) How does the Word relate to the Holy Spirit?

4) The Bible talks about many Messengers of God. Are their multiple Holy Spirits?

5) How do the 7 Spirits relate to God and the Holy Spirit?

6) Why did Jesus have to go away before he could send the Holy Spirit?

Isaiah 11:1-3
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse;
from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on him—
the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding,
the Spirit of counsel and of might,
the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the Lord—
3 and he will delight in the fear of the Lord.



Revelation 3:1
3 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars.
“ ‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 1:4
4 John to the seven churches that are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne

Revelation 4:5
5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, and rumblings and peals of thunder, and before the throne were burning seven torches of fire, which are the seven spirits of God,

Revelation 5:6
6 And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw na Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.

Zechariah 3:9
9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,’ says the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day.

Zechariah 4:10
10 “Who dares despise the day of small things, since the seven eyes of the Lord that range throughout the earth will rejoice when they see the chosen capstonea in the hand of Zerubbabel?”

John 16:7
7But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

Some intriguing questions that I think "trinitarians" gloss over, or do not consider. Here is another scripture to throw in the pot -
Isaiah 63:
9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?

 

[meshak]

It's foolish to try to divide the unity that binds Father and Son.

Are you saying it was not talking about the God the Father, and it was Jesus.

So you believe Father and Jesus make one God?

Is that it?

 

[jamie]

Are you saying it was not talking about the God the Father, and it was Jesus.

So you believe Father and Jesus make one God?

Is that it?

Luke was talking about God who is singular and plural. They both constituted the God of Abram, Isaac, and Jacob.

Christ made the Sinaitic covenant through Moses according to the Father's will. They work in concert.

 

[meshak]

Luke was talking about God who is singular and plural. They both constituted the God of Abram, Isaac, and Jacob.

Do you believe what you quoted was talking about Jesus and His Father?

It sais "I am the God of Abraham...."

So this I am is both The Father and Son?

 

[CherubRam]

Do you believe what you quoted was talking about Jesus and His Father?

It sais "I am the God of Abraham...."

So this I am is both The Father and Son?

In Matthew 26 and Mark 14 we have the same story with two different acknowledgements.

Matthew 26:62. Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"
63. But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."
64. "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Mark 14:60. Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61. But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer.
Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?"

62. "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

In Hebrew there is the word "I," but there is no such words as "I am."
"I am" is an interpretation for "I Lived" also here in John 8. I Lived" is the trans-literal.
John 8:58
New International Version (NIV)
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” {I lived} is the correct translation.

 

[jamie]

Do you believe what you quoted was talking about Jesus and His Father?

It sais "I am the God of Abraham...."

So this I am is both The Father and Son?

What we normally call the Holy Spirit.

 

[keypurr]

Now all you have to do is find out who the word is.
Hint: It is not Jesus for he is flesh.

Jesus was born of woman like the rest of us, but how many of us lived before we were born?

You seem to be hung up on Jesus' birth and ignore the fact the Word who was made flesh existed at the beginning. What beginning? Any beginning you want the Word was already there.

Can a Spirit become human by saying "presto chango"? A Spirit can only become human by human birth.

In the beginning was the Word... (John 1:1 NKJV)
​

Don't try to change that.

I do not see that Jesus live before he was born. You do not realize that the Spirit Christ spoke through Jesus. I do not see Jesus was the Word that became flesh.

The spiritual son Christ did indeed inhabit Jesus. Christ is the true son that God sent. Jesus was not born with the express image in him.

God created everything through his express image, that would be a spirit. A spirit became flesh. Jesus was only a man, a sin less man, who qualified to be the Lamb.