Nontrinitarianism

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The Son is the Spirit of God with a body.

The Son is NOT what trinitarians say, and that is that the Son is a different and separate person.

So, you're the Scholar we should all be listening to?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

There is but one gospel for all men regardless.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal 1:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

LA

There were two different Messages being preached back then. There
is one today. That would be, The Grace Message. (Paul's Gospel) And,
it covers both Jew and gentile alike. It's called, "The Body of Christ."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Paul's Epistles speak to the Body of Christ (Romans through Philemon)

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The Son is the Spirit of God with a body.

The Son is NOT what trinitarians say, and that is that the Son is a different and separate person.

You are wrong and your view makes you incapable of knowing the man Jesus in order to be saved.

Your idea came from Plato.

Jesus truly was tempted and had died.

God can not be tempted nor die.

The man Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

NOT -the God Jesus.

LA

 

[God's Truth]

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place." Revelation 1:1

"Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth." Revelation 1:4-5

I don't deny Scripture at all.

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone." Luke 18:19

Yeshua never stated that He is the Father or that He is equal to the Father (Sorry Lon, your interpretation of John 14 is incorrect). If He were to have done that, the entire Headship (1 Corinthians 11:3) is nothing and if that is the case, then a whole lot of Scriptural teaching goes down the drain.

Jesus is the Father. Jesus is the Father with a physical body.

God is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.

Jesus is God with a body before coming to earth, then with a flesh body on earth, and then with a Spiritual body in heaven after the ascension.

Scriptures that say Jesus is God the Father:

See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. 1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.

See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.

See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[God's Truth]

You are wrong and your view makes you incapable of knowing the man Jesus in order to be saved.

Your idea came from Plato.

Jesus truly was tempted and had died.

God can not be tempted nor die.

The man Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

NOT -the God Jesus.

LA

God really came as a Man He did not pretend to come as a Man.

My beliefs come from the Holy Bible and Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus calls himself the Father.

Scriptures that say Jesus is God the Father:

See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. 1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.

See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.

See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[God's Truth]

The message is from God through Yeshua to John. Yeshua does not declare Himself the Alpha and Omega, God does. Yeshua states clearly that without God, He can do nothing. John 5:30.

Jesus calls himself the beginning and the end. That is what Jesus calls himself.

Why don't you believe it?

 

[God's Truth]

You really need to read the verses I quoted to you. Here it is the Lord Jesus who says that He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end:

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (Rev.22:12-13).​

This has to be the Lord Jesus saying "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end" because the One who said that also said, "I come quickly."

And there can be no doubt that is the Lord Jesus:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus" (Rev.22:20).​

Amen.

Jesus says that HE IS the BEGINNING AND THE END.

 

[God's Truth]

I believe in the "Grace Message" known as, Paul's Gospel.

Jesus CAME with grace, but you say he did not have the grace message?!

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

So, you're the Scholar we should all be listening to?

Believe what the scriptures say.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Believe what the scriptures say.

Is it okay if we stop listening to your theories then?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Jesus CAME with grace, but you say he did not have the grace message?!

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

That verse speaks to the Jews. Not to the Body of Christ. Romans
through Philemon speak to the gentiles/Body of Christ.

 

[God's Truth]

That verse speaks to the Jews. Not to the Body of Christ. Romans
through Philemon speak to the gentiles/Body of Christ.

Jesus is Lord over all.

His word stands forever.

 

[IMJerusha]

MY point is, THIS is an English site, so please stick to English. Using transliterated Hebrew doesn't impress anybody.

So, no, you're not done attacking. I am speaking English...clearly.

Jesus' blood brought redemption and reconciliation for sin and mankind. Salvation is in the NAME of Jesus and must be confessed to be actuated. If one does NOT confess the TRUE savior, one cannot be saved, and if one falls into apostasy from that confession, one is not longer saved.

I sure hope you're not stating that the name Yeshua belongs to a false Messiah. That would be blasphemy beyond bigotry.

The why are you arguing about it?

My use of the name of Yeshua does not constitute an argument.

I'm NOT attacking, I'm critiquing your sectarian style.

My use of the name of Yeshua does not constitute sectarianism. Your complaining about it, however, does.

I would think you SHOULD know this by now, but obviously your do not.
Read the following as an example;
http://www.reformation21.org/shelf-life/paul-in-fresh-perspective.php

Why would you think I would hold with N. T. Wright over Yeshua?

People who use the old "were you there" ploy are avoiding.

Or it's a way of simply asking how you know something that no one else in the world would know unless they were there?

It's not an answer, it an avoidance OF actually answering.

Or it's a way of simply asking how you know something that no one else in the world would know unless they were there?

Gen 1:26-27, 3:22 shows He is addressing somebody OTHER than himself.

I believe I did state that but there is no record of when that OTHER somebody came to be.

Jesus did NOT exist until he was born.

Were you there?

Before that He was the WORD, and John 1:1 says the WORD was GOD.

The WORD that didn't exist until He was born? Nah...I'm not buying this. Yeshua is not the Father. He is the Son.

You don't believe the following?
Jesus said: I and the Father are one.
Jesus said: If you've seen me you've seen the Father.
Jesus said: If you knew me, you would know my Father also.
Jesus said: You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.
Jesus said: If you do not believe that I am He, you will indeed die in your sins.
Jesus said: You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am.
Jesus said: Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

I don't believe any of this states that Yeshua is God especially since Yeshua states He is not. "I stand with the Father, who sent me." John 8:16 "I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me." John 8:18 "You do not know me or my Father." John 8:19

Which obviously was the result of false teachings occurring BEFORE then. The doctrines already existed FAR before 250 AD and that Nicene Council.

No, there was no set doctrine of the Trinity before the First Council of Nicaea. There was an Apostolic Creed but it made no mention of the Trinity.

Not that YOU see, but it is indeed there in the old and new.

Not that I see? Where do you get that from?

How does this answer my question,

Don't you understand that Yeshua's authority is God's?

and do you know what the "right hand of God" actually conveys?

Yes, but I don't think you do.

John 14 is Jesus talking about the NEW Jerusalem, NOT heaven or pearly gates.

Really? Does Yeshua state this? No, He states that He is describing the Father's House. "In my Father's House are many rooms..." Where is His Father?...in heaven and Yeshua states this in Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

WE, the Body of Christ are God's house now. 1 Cor 3:16 (NIV), 1 Cor 6:20 (NIV), 2 Cor 6:16 (NIV) are only a few examples of this.

Yeah, I'm sorry, I just don't think God lives in sin. I think the point of considering our bodies temples of the Lord is that we are not to give ourselves over to sin.

You confuse the NEW Jerusalem with heaven and equivocate about what you were conveying.

So...if I don't agree with the interpretation of Scripture you hold with and believe God's Word simply, I'm equivocating/being deceptive? That's interesting! Since when can we not take Yeshua at His Word?

When we die, we don't GO to heaven and there are NO pearly gates IN heaven. The gates In Rev 22:14 are hyperbolic in nature, NOT real.

I don't see hyperbole in Yeshua's Words. I just believe them.
Heaven is where God and Yeshua are. That's good enough for me.

 

[IMJerusha]

Theophilus, a greek name meaning friend of God. Written to the gentiles

Yup!

 

[IMJerusha]

Coming from the likes of you, I'll take that as a "supreme compliment."

The likes of me?

 

[IMJerusha]

Matthew 15:24 states: "But he answered and said,
I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house
of Israel."

Your argument would be with our Lord Jesus Christ!"

Nope, my argument is with your failure to understand the context of Yeshua's Words to a Canaanite.

 

[God's Truth]

Jesus is the Father. Jesus is the Father with a physical body.

God is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.

Jesus is God with a body before coming to earth, then with a flesh body on earth, and then with a Spiritual body in heaven after the ascension.

Scriptures that say Jesus is God the Father:

See Deuteronomy 32:18. You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth. 1 Corinthians 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.


Jesus says those who overcome he will be their GOD and they will be his CHILDREN.

See Revelation 21:7. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Jesus says when you SEE him, you have SEEN the Father.

See John 14:7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? John 12:45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and Holy Spirit. So that is what I call Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Hi ImJershua,

How about discuss these scriptures with me instead of wasting time talking to GM?

 

[IMJerusha]

Christ came for the Lost sheep of the House of Israel in Matthew through
John. The Body of Christ didn't come along until Paul was sent to the gentiles,
preaching the Grace Message. Matthew through John is to the Jews, not to the
gentiles IMJ. You don't know how to "Rightly Divide" the word of God.

Christ and His Disciples preached the "Kingdom Gospel" to the Jews and Paul
preached the Grace Message to the gentiles. Two separate Messages.

So we don't need to pay attention to Yeshua's teaching; just Paul's teaching? But Paul's teaching is Yeshua's teaching; it's just that Yeshua's teaching to the Jews is different than Yeshua's teaching to the Gentiles. That would make Yeshua's teaching dual natured or your understanding wrong and divisive. I'm thinking the latter because Yeshua is not dual natured and in Him is no Jew or Gentile.

 

[IMJerusha]

Hi ImJershua,

How about discuss these scriptures with me instead of wasting time talking to GM?

I don't think responding to Grosnick is a waste of time. I do need to get dinner on the table for my family and it's getting late. I gather you believe that the verses you quoted are proof that Yeshua is God, the Father. Isaiah 9:6 is as close a statement I can find to the doctrine of the Trinity, but it does not definitely identify Yeshua as God the Father.