andyc
New member
I love to think about such things as this. Caleb 85 years old said, "gimme the mountain of giants!"
I bet he thought about those giants all the time while trudging round the wilderness for 40 years.
ECT No freewill, you say? God decrees faith?
- Thread starter Cross Reference
- Start date
I love to think about such things as this. Caleb 85 years old said, "gimme the mountain of giants!"
I bet he thought about those giants all the time while trudging round the wilderness for 40 years.
Cross Reference
New member
Cross Reference
New member
And o the grapes! Grapes the size of golf balls!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
lain:
This shows they had no freewill...
Can YOU give a scripture? where God bestowed freewill on man.
If you give folks a choice you are not giving them freewill, you are giving them options.
The One who gives the options is the One with free sovereign will.
God did not say to the Egyptians "choose this day who you will serve" where then was their freewill?
and it says who you will serve
So they had freewill...as long as they did as they were told.
"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat" Gen 2:16
That was easier than breathing.
Cross Reference
New member
Then He said "thou shalt not" ....that is a command, a veto on freewill.
Choice is not freewill it is a choice between options chosen by somebody else...God, They could disobey and they did, were they thereby made free? no they were not.
Now they became bond servants, slaves.
's' no such thing as freewill. It is the deception whereby man was deceived. Satan said go ahead, you won't die.....
No it's not. Freewill can include conditions.
If there are options, then man is free to choose one or the other. Freewill is always limited within the limits set upon it. When man became a slave to sin, he was bound to it, and not free to be free from it.
Satan lied about them having no freewill. Appears he still is.
genuineoriginal
New member
Genesis 1:26-27 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. |
Genesis 4:6-7 6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. |
If you give people options but deny them the ability to make a freewill choice among the options, then you really are not giving them a choice.
Are you claiming that God gives options without giving the freewill to choose between the options?
God asked Pharaoh how long he would refuse to humble himself before God.
Exodus 10:3 3 And Moses and Aaron came in unto Pharaoh, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, How long wilt thou refuse to humble thyself before me? let my people go, that they may serve me. |
That shows that Pharaoh had the freewill to humble himself before God but refused.
genuineoriginal
New member
It appears that your claim is that God forced Adam and Eve to disobey His commands.
Is that what you are claiming?
Cross Reference
New member
Man was never, is never bound to to sin but the penalty of it.
Man, by Adam's transgression was made bound to vanity __ the choice that Adam was subjected to in his innocence for him to make up his mind which God he would serve, i.e., God or himself.
[Romans 8:20 ]
"For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin." Rom 7:14
You are a better bible scholar than that dearest Gen. You know very well that God raised Pharoah up for the purpose of showing His power, even while God was giving Pharoah the option He was hardening his heart.
WHY? here a great deal of caution is needed. But just as the Jews were predetermined to deny Christ [and so salvation came to the world] so was Pharoah predetermined to rebel in order to reveal God's [love] power toward His oppressed people.
A BIG mistake is made in supposing that ALL Egypt were thus condemned with the same condemnation that Pharoah and his cronies were condemned with....the gospel was being preached to the Egyptians, many sided with the Jews.
The choice with Cain is who will you serve? who will you be obedient to? how can serving another or obedience to another be described as freewill?
You are speaking about God's creating man was some kind of consultation process. Where in all the story of creation was man consulted? would you like 2 eyes or 3? how many toes would you like?
Would you like to be created in God's image? male and female?
Ow that's what I LOVE about God. He just goes ahead and does things.
Do you know the key to this?
The key is that God's will is always the very best, it is a matter of trust.
Choice is not freewill, the one who gives the choice is the only one with freewill...if God chooses not to give the choice then there is no freedom to choose. And frankly what are the options but "will you live or will you die?" dead men do not have freewill.
But again you overlook the fact that man HAS chosen...he chose amiss, now no more choice. He chose death, he must die.
But God had mercy.
That is not my claim, but He foreknew....
The alternative to obedience [obedience is not freewill] is death. Dead men do not have freewill.
True FREEDOM for man is to be in God's will, God's will for man is the best...that is what he is created for, God's will is man's true environment just as water is the fishie's true environment.
That's what you see with man..flapping and wildly contorting because he is like a fishy out of water.
You are consigning freewill to only life and death. No man can will himself to fly either, but that does not make the term exhaustive.
Just as man has made a vehicle (means) to fly, God has made a vehicle (means) for man to live.
The gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes it.
Death means to be separate, not inanimate.
"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live"
Cross Reference
New member
Sold into the bondage to "Vanity" (Rom. 8:20 KJV) whose sole purpose is to keep me "independent", as in "do my own thing". In this does "Vanity" assume a life of its own ___"ME". Jesus came to the defeat the power of that bondage by the example set in His own life and, if desired, will enable anyone by the gift of His Life to overcome ___"ME".
"Vanity" could be visualized as the "Sweetheart" of Satan. "ME" is the challenge set before every new born child of God.
“If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou must rule over him.” Genesis 4:7 (ESV)
Last edited: