Usually that leads into bickering which is disgraceful.
No “new law”
- Thread starter jzeidler
- Start date
Usually that leads into bickering which is disgraceful.
jzeidler
New member
I fully agree. Many people it seems come here specifically to try and change everyone’s minds to what they believe is right instead of wishing to have a dialogue with people whom, yes they disagree with, but are willing to admit there is something that they can learn through the experience of having an honest dialogue.
Like, for me as an example. This new year I am working on three things to better myself.
1-Composure and how I conduct myself in my everyday life but also how I act towards others when I disagree with them.
2-compassion and how I treat those I disagree with and may not even like.
3-intellect. This includes a schedule where I wake up and read things of intellectual interest to me. This conversation for example.
If more people would come here to honestly dialogue rather than push their point I believe this forum would be much more enjoyable.
jzeidler
New member
Again, For those who are interested, this podcast will go into more detail about the subject:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYQEr0yr6iJmTvc5WibpDpJQOK3jBTXVu
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https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYQEr0yr6iJmTvc5WibpDpJQOK3jBTXVu
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He says to utterly disown yourself, take up your own cross, and follow him. I simply said the same from the Torah which he is teaching, (yep, no "new law", lol). The passage from your OP speaks of supernal and spiritual things; and just as Paul likewise teaches, sin dwells in "the flesh", (Romans 7), which is symbolized as the "outer bounds" or commons-profane area of the body-temple, wherein dwell all sorts of evil beasts and sinful creatures. Therefore I said, cut them off and cast them from you, (as the Master says), before they choke the Seed of the Word from the soil of your heart and you become unfruitful, (again, parable of the sower and other like parables and sayings of the Master). But if one refuses to walk in the Spirit of the Testimony of the Messiah, (as even Paul teaches), then the same is not one of his.
He surely does not speak of literally plucking out physical eyes and cutting off literal physical hands and feet, (just as you likewise agree), but that does not mean you get to spiritualize such things away, into meaningless nothingness, where such teachings and sayings become completely voided out in your doctrine: they must necessarily mean something, (and it is indeed an utterly critical something, lol), otherwise the Testimony of Messiah becomes of no effect in your understanding and it is you who are going to suffer the loss for not understanding it. It is typical Rabbinical teaching: the Master is making sure that you know he is not speaking in physical terms when he says such things, and in typical Rabbinical style he goes way overboard to make that point, (much like saying that you must eat his flesh and drink his blood if you want to have life in you). However, again, that does not mean his words have no meaning or that he is just making sure you know you cannot do what he says: no, for you can indeed do what he says, if only you are willing to hear, understand, and apply what those things mean to yourself and in your daily walk, (and if so then you too will no doubt be dying daily as again even Paul says and teaches). And again, he clearly does not speak of physical carnal things; so one may only truly understand by further and deeper investigation into his all-important Testimony.
You agree that his blood has purchased you, and that is good; but for what reason did they kill him? Was it not because of his very Testimony and the things which he said and taught? He did no wrong, and they found no fault in him except for his Testimony, and they crucified him for his Testimony. And what therefore if his Testimony is tantamount to his blood and yet someone claiming his name does not heed, observe, or do what he teaches? Such a one who claims his name, but does not do what he teaches, is treacherously close to trampling his blood: for he paid for that Testimony with his own blood, and that Testimony is therefore tantamount to his blood, and that Testimony was not even truly his own but was given him from the Father, from above, from the heavens, (Jhn 3:27-36). Moreover, if his blood is equivalent to his Testimony, then his holy Testimony is your Atonement and you must apply it or put it on, (even like "putting on the mind of Messiah", that is, putting on his Testimony), if you will indeed have that atoning covering which has been approved, (even by Voice), from the Father above.
jzeidler
New member
Thanks meshak.
Yes, I do agree with you. Jesus does use hyperbole and metaphors often. But many times when he does that he usually says before “the kingdom of heaven is like” and so on. Jesus does not do that here. In fact it seems he is saying this to specifically be taken literal because before he said, “your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees.” The Pharisees follow the whole law as well as the Talmud. In order to exceed them you have to go farther than them in your penance and law keeping if you wish to be seen as righteous before God.
Jesus teachings are not taken legalistically.
He focuss on our heart.
So it is not good idea to bring Pharisees example to be faithful.
they were not faithful inwardly.
jzeidler
New member
Jesus was the one who used them as an example of righteousness.
Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Suite yourself but the scripture teaches that we do not receive the Promise until after we have done the will of Elohim, (Heb10:36), and Paul moreover expounds on what that will of Elohim concerns, (1Thes4:2-8). Your teachings are therefore not only utterly worthless but trample the blood of Messiah because you nullify his words and teachings with your false doctrines and traditions of men based in the wisdom of the world and knowledge and reasoning of man.
PS ~ Moreover, you also do not have his literal blood to apply to yourself either, (just as you say that plucking out eyes and cutting off limbs is not supposed to be taken as literal), and therefore the only thing you really do have to apply to yourself is his Testimony which is the supernal equivalent to his blood.
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jzeidler
New member
However there are two things I should say:
1-i agree with you when you say,
“Jesus teachings are not taken legalistically.
He focuss on our heart.”
2- I am not arguing that the Pharisees are truly righteous people or examples of true righteousness. I’m saying that I believe they were great law keepers and I think that is the heart of what Jesus is getting at. “If you want to justify yourself/be “good with God” by works of the law you have to be better than the best law keepers.”
I think Jesus was being sarcastic.
jzeidler
New member
Ok, but within historical and cultural context jesus’ words would have been taken at face value. Everyone saw the Pharisees as the most righteous and closest to God People of the day.
It is no law Jesus cannot be sarcastic. He is the only one who knew what was going on.
jzeidler
New member
You’re right, there is no law saying Jesus cannot be sarcastic. However, a good teacher/speaker does not say something that would end up confusing his audience. Because of the historical and cultural context in the way people reverenced the Pharisees what Jesus said about “exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees” would have confused his audience if he was using sarcasm.
glorydaz
Well-known member
glorydaz
Well-known member
Nope, He was quite serious, just as He is here. You think you can measure up?
Matt. 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
jzeidler
New member
Alright meshak, have a good day.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Meshak doesn't want to admit that the law Jesus preached when He walked among us required perfection.
Since the PURPOSE of the law is to stop every mouth and show men their guilt......:idunno:
Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.